How safe are prisons in England and Wales?
Extra punishment in prison for illicit items like phones and drugs has "created a kind of battleground and made things much worse", said the Howard League for Penal Reform chief executive.
Frances Crook claimed there was a crisis in prisons, and they were in "such a terrible state" with increasing reports of violence.
Former Conservative home secretary Michael Howard recalled how he brought in drug test in prisons, despite being warned they would lead to riots.
They spoke to Daily Politics presenter Jo Coburn after the Commons Justice Select Committee reported a 20% increase in assaults in the last 6 months in prisons.
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