Entrepreneurs - Stuart Archbold and Andrew Leslie
Stuart Archbold and Andrew Leslie
Shopbox Systems Ltd
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From the Den
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dragonsden/media/emp/playlists/entrepreneurs/stuartarchbold.xml
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Red Button
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlist/p008z6bs
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Roadtests
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlist/p008z7cd
| Name | Stuart Archbold and Andrew Leslie |
| Pitching | Shopbox Systems Ltd |
| Investment Required | 拢250,000 |
| Equity Offered | 10% |
| Brief Description | An outdoor temperature controlled container for storing online grocery shopping when it is delivered. |
Stuart and Andrew in the Den
A confident pitch is not always a guarantee of success in the Den as Andrew and Stuart find out to their cost.
The pair suggest that their storage system is key to the future of grocery delivery as it will allow goods to be dropped off and left for many hours before a customer returns home. They have already spend almost 拢1,000,000 on their idea.
Duncan Bannatyne is unimpressed - he thinks the system looks like a wheelie bin - a claim the Andrew confidently and quickly dismisses.
Duncan rubbishes the Shopbox
Peter Jones says the idea will become obsolete very soon as future technologies will allow supermarkets to offer delivery times of within ten minutes shortly. Andrew agrees but suggests it's physical impossible to deliver goods within peak demand time.
Deborah Meaden disagrees with Peter and backs the duo but says this product is not aesthically attractive and declares herself out.
Theo Paphitis is furious because he feels that it would be very easy for small children to get locked inside one of the boxes for many hours. He tells the pair their idea is dangerous and should not enter the public domain. With that he declares himself out.
James Caan follows suit advising Stuart and Andrew that they should not invest any more money in the idea.
Duncan then has a very heated debate with Stuart about the validity of the patent they have secured - he argues that there is nothing to stop other people from copying the idea to put a chip in the box to control the temperature. Stuart stands his ground and completely disagrees with the Scot. Duncan is out.
An amazing twist then occurs as Peter Jones reads though the document and finds that they do indeed hold the patent on their concept. Peter suggests this is what they should have made the highlight of their pitch. With that he offers them 拢1,000,000 for a 45% share.
The figure is four times the amount they entered the Den requesting - but the proposal also demands four and a half times more equity than they were prepared to give away.
The duo go away to consider their options but when they return they advise Peter that other investors are offering money and they are not prepared to discuss these because of confidentiality agreements. A furious Peter withdraws his offer and the pair leave the Den emptyhanded.
The deal done in the Den:
No investment.
Last updated: 21 July 2010
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Comments
How the heck did the 'shopbox' guys manage to secure such a broadly defined patent?
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Don't get it - this isn't even a new idea
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The write up is unclear by calling it a "design patent". In the US and elsewhere this is for the ornamental design of the product. The patent they have in the UK is for the invention. They should have mentioned it at the start of the pitch. Peter Jones saw the claims of the patent and was immediately very interested. I'm not convinced that the patent is valid, but it is granted in the UK only with very broad claims that cover a storage container that is lockable and accessible by a delivery organisation and a householder. The patent is their asset, not the box they displayed.
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This is not a new product. I had a prototype of something called Bearbox installed at home about 10 years ago. I can't remember how I came across them but first prototype was a fridge-sixed box with mobile technology which allowed you to generate a pin number which was sent to the delivering company who used the pin to open the box and leave your goods. The second one was the same but upgraded and wired into the house and was also designed by Conran. I loved it as we both work and it solved a problem - you could even leave dry cleaning in it and give the local dry cleaners a code to pick it up and deliver it back. The only problem was that when I went to a focus group almost no-one was prepared to pay to rent it. Have just googled Bearbox and they seem to have switched to a more commercial application. When I trialed it I actually considered contacting them to invest myself as it seemed such a genius idea but the focus group results changed my mind.
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It does seem strange but the patent was filed on 11 January 1999 and granted on 18 December 2001 (Patent No. GB2333095 - see ).
There is limited reference to prior art and the main claims seem extraordinarily simple and, in summary, appear to cover an insulated storage container (free standing or integrated in a property) that can be secured by a combination lock or magnetic swipe card. In addition, the claims include that it has variable sized internal compartments and can be refrigerated or heated.
For me it would lack a true "inventive step" and fall into the "that's obvious" category but, if the patent stands, then it does appear to be extremely broad and would cover any attempt to provide an external storage container accessed by PIN for the receipt of groceries.
I am NOT a patent agent but wouldn't be surprised if it failed in a challenge!
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IF the patent is ligit and holds up (which would also be a conditional point of any DD investment) then the Dragons show their true colours, again, as unwilling to invest in anything far removed from what they know has worked for them in the past (as opposed to things they may have failed at). Most of their investments seem to rely on whether they can use their existing contacts to distribute and/or promote the product/service or else have very little investment needed. The most usueless things like the i-teddy they can invest in whereas the diving vessel they ran away from despite projected profits in years 3 and 4 of 拢1.8m vs a 450k investment - this just for selling 8 units of an item with a 30% price advantage over its nearest competitor and a 'order' boook (interest) of 10 already. This from 2 engineers who have no business idea and therefore think they need the Dragons (and probably do) - but the Dragons dont know how to make this business work (or plain missed the figures). If you have a simple product (like the pathetic doll you dress up!) then they can take it to market. Or if they think their faces will sell the product/service (recruitment at 拢500 flat fee) ... but they will rarely step outside this safety zone. Sorry for taking it at all seriously, it's just a show, for show! I wonder if they think Occado is a business worth investing in .. umm.
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The patent document available on the UKIPO website (viewable through the link provided by prfields) is the published patent application NOT the granted patent. Due to the number of prior art documents identified in the search report (shown on the final page of the publication) it is highly likely that the granted claims are much narrower.
The easy way to distinguish these publications is the letter following the patent number: A=published application (not examined); B=granted patent. UK granted patents pre-2003 are generally not available online. You'd have to request a copy from the UKIPO or go to the British Library to see the granted patent.
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There's also their PCT application WO0197664 for 'improvements to home delivery system'- it was never pursued beyong this stage. Nuff said. GB'095B doesn't look available but application looks rubbish - claim 1 could be a garden bin with a lock or latch? Someone surely has done that before......
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Sorry, the inaccuracy with "design patent" has now been amended, the entrepreneurs concerned do hold a patent for this product.
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The Shopbox seems a fine idea but couldn't anybody just walk off with? It's portability makes it vulnerable surely unless there is a secure way of attaching it to a particular property.
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It seems the point has been missed here. Why would you shop online for food, book a slot and then not be in to take delivery? Generally, if you order groceries online for delivery, you pick a slot which is convenient for you to be in? If that鈥檚 not the case, then surely 鈥 just go to the shop??
This product may work if no timeslot could be given, however these slots are getting shorter and shorter.
Finally, many households have several wheelie bins 鈥 no way would I want another that looks just the same.
Do people really not have the time to visit a shop? Come on!!
Not a very good idea....
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I think the Gentlemen missed a good point in selling thier product--Home delivery have different cost as to delivery times.
This item would pay for itself as you could have a delivery at the cheapest tarrif.
The children being locked inside would need to be addressed but not a huge problem and the item, as already stated needs to be able to be secured to a wall for security.
Deborah says she has places built into her property for such an item but 99% of people do not live in the type of property she and the other Dragons own.
There are lot of people who rent propeties and a movable item that they can take with them when they move around the country or can rent in different areas is more viable .
The item could linked up to The delivery companies who could offer a discount on the delivery charge so they would have more flexibilty about delivery.
As an ex HGV Driver I know that even with the best of intentions about timed delivery a lot can go wrong.
How many times have we all had to leave the house when not expecting to and we have to pay extra for a second delivery or travel a long way to go and pick up the item.
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One reason why I like shopping on line is that the deliveryman helpfully delivers things not just to the door but to the kitchen table...
Shared Theo Paphitis's concern about children (or indeed pets) getting shut in. If I understand the concept, the box is left open and unlocked (unlike car boots, which rather invalidates that comparison) pending a delivery. What's to stop a miscreant helping popping a small playmate or pet in and shutting the lid? Or just shutting the lid for the hell of it, so that the deliveryman can't access the box either? Anyone who thinks it doesn't happen clearly hasn't had the frustration of looking for an 'open' locker at their local gym or swimming pool where a 'lock on shutting' mechanism is in use...
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reference to TEMPLEBAR.
The gentlemen said that the box is locked and the delivery company will be given the code for the lock so the goods can be put inside.
This should eliminate the Little Angels from playing hide and seek in there, as I stated a safety device could be installed inside to allow it to be be opened.
I watched the item--DRAGONS ROADSHOW, view the link from this site.
I found the presenter not doing his job correctly when showing the item off to the public.
HE FAILED TO MENTION that this item is for rental, a few of the public asked about the item stated "I bet it is expensive".
Mr Presenter do your job properly and give this item a fair chance, dont just try to make Headlines.
Norman
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There is a glaring problem with security.. especially with wheels!! But IF there is a way around thatthen it is a brilliant idea. Surely though there could have been a way of building this more slowly up from the ground, instead of looking as though they invested millions in an all or nothing venture. That seems to be what wound the dragons up.
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I'm not a patent agent either, but I think their patent actually does cover some very valuable IP. It's the details of the box design that matter, especially the refrigerated compartment. There are several patents in the general area, but they're mostly about the computer and communications aspect of the combination locks, which is only part of the system. It might be hard to produce a useful product of this general type without using the ideas claimed in this patent.
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I know that Tesco will not deliver to under 18's due to the nature of what can be bought ie alcohol, cigarettes, knives. All deliveries need to be signed for by an adult. As Tesco can be prosecuted and fined for supplying these products to under age people, I doubt it if they or any other grocery retailer would sign on to a scheme whereby dangerous product could be accessed by anyone.
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Dragons missed out here. I'm fed up with driving to our 'local' depot and fed up paying for expensive evening delivery slots with sainsburys. Only Peter Jones saw the benefit of Shopbox and he only backed out when he knew Shopbox had secured alternative investors.
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I agree with the rpevious
I agree with the last comment. I'm also sick of seeing Tesco lorries in the street three times on the same day. Surely shopbox would reduce this cos they could make all the deliveries to that street in one go. Its got to be a good idea. Good luck to the guys, I rarely see anything that should take off this deserves to.
The grocerypig speaks, people should listen.
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I agree with the previous comment. I am sick of seeing the Tesco lorry in our street three times in one day. Surely shopbox will reduce the chance of this happening. This will also reduce those unnecessary limes and help the environment. The dragon's have missed the point here and missed a trick. Peter should have asked for more for his 拢1m.
The grocerypig speaks, others should listen
I agree with the last comment. I'm also sick of seeing Tesco lorries in the street three times on the same day. Surely shopbox would reduce this cos they could make all the deliveries to that street in one go. Its got to be a good idea. Good luck to the guys, I rarely see anything that should take off this deserves to.
The grocerypig speaks, people should listen.
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There may be ambiguity in the phrasing of the patent that is open to different interpretation. I agree with Duncan. They never invented the universal storage box for storing delivered food which all other possible food storage boxes exemplify, they invented their particular food storage box, and that is what the patent should be for. It's characteristic of peter to want to be generous, but I'm actually glad he did not invest the million.
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1. I can't believe that they have that broad a patent and don't understand how two Dragon's can have such opposite views on what the patent says! Even if the patent is that broad, then they would need money to defend it because if they are successful then others will want in and tear apart such a wide patent. Anyone know what page 22 of the patent application means? Appears to be the conclusion of a patent examiner that lists many claims that are not unique. Unfortunately could not find the granted "B" patent.
2. They are trying to sell them at but appear to be too expensive! Why the install fee? It only needs to be dropped off! They are in start-up mode, they can't have barriers like this. "Your shopbox will cost just a 拢99 installation fee and 拢14.99 a month thereafter, for a minimum period of 18 months."
3. How could they have spent a million on development and have such obvious design flaws - not childsafe (easy to fix) - uses a key?! not an electronic PIN code?! - they recommend not moving it when full... etc. Appears to have been designed by Renfrew
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There is already a problem with a wheelie bin space in front of the houses. Where to place a second one? The container is too bulky and does not need wheels to be steeled away. Why not to attach it to the house wall aside from the entrance? With three different sizes, shapes and colours and with a small roof no one could stand on?
The 鈥渓ocked child鈥 should be 鈥渦nlocked鈥 otherwise it might cause problems to comply with health and safety regulations.
If the patent office gives away such great patents, would it not be financially better to focus on collecting and selling patents rather than manufacturing items?
It would be a great fun if the guys from the Shopbox Systems Ltd offered Peter the full stake of their company for 拢2,000,000. That would give them lovely 拢1,000,000 profit. ;)
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