麻豆社

The Iraq Study Group

Barbara is in Johannesburg and is talking about President Bush: 鈥淗e鈥檚 seen the opportunity to make a 180 degree change and be a true democratic leader but I think his mind was made up before the Report was made.

Bill is in NYC: Last night the American people got a Walter Cronkite moment when he said Vietnam was over. Lee Hamilton was the Walter Cronkite of this era. He told us this was a misadventure. The American people were there ahead of LBJ and Richard Nixon.

Achmed is in Cairo: 鈥淚t鈥檚 ironic that it鈥檚 taken this long to get this message through to the US people. You can鈥檛 invade a country and expect them to turn around and embrace you. It鈥檚 about getting them to admit a mistake.鈥�

MJ is in Oregon, she is a Gold Star mother, she lost her son in Iraq: 鈥淚 honestly believe that America鈥檚 resolve needs to be stronger. So-called allies need to realise that pulling out is not an option and quit Monday-morning quarterbacking and roll up their sleeves. We鈥檙e always willing to help. When we go to a country we stay and rebuild and make it better than it was. Some of those allies have turned a blind eye to the fact this is an international problem.鈥�

Rob in the UK: 鈥滿J is 100% correct. As an Englishman I am disgusted with the Europeans. The US is attempting a noble cause. This has given a victory to Iran, Syria and Jihadists.鈥�

Congressman Shays is on the line, he鈥檚 been to Iraq 15 times and knows the place: 鈥淚t鈥檚 a sound proposal. It鈥檚 in 3 parts. They鈥檝e made it clear they need to transition Iraqis into doing the controlling the streets. Secondly we need to see reconciliation take place between Sunnis and Shias. Thirdly we need a diplomatic effort with the six neighbours and Egypt. The Iraqis need to perform and if they don鈥檛 then the coalition forces need to withdraw more quickly.鈥�

MJ: 鈥淚 agree with some of those things but I think we should leave and send a message of pulling out. It鈥檚 like throwing a life vest to the people of thwe Titanic and just as we get there we pull away鈥︹��

Shays: 鈥淚f they are reaching out to the life vest then we should be there for them. What the ISG is saying is that if you re not willing to perform then we cannot be there for you鈥� The ISG acknowledges we will have embedded troops. The Iraqis do not have NCOs like they should.鈥�

Ersin is in Holland: 鈥淵ou should leave the area. If we need officers then they should come from the US. From the beginning the Bush admin never understood the mentality of the Middle East. We need a timetable, say 2007, and put in a UN force.鈥�

Shays: 鈥淲e鈥檝e tried to engage other countries and they鈥檙e not interested. The mistake was not going in to Iraq the mistake was what we did once we got in there. We made huge mistakes.鈥�
MJ: 鈥淲hat is he (Ersin) personally willing to do to stand up and support the fight against world terrorism?鈥�

Ersin: 鈥淭he earlier you get out and let the Arabic people find a solution . . .鈥�

MJ is evoking the memory of Pearl Harbour: 鈥�65 years ago today our country was attacked. If we had listened to this type of conversation back then what would have happened? We鈥檝e gone to the UN and our allies left us, Italy dropped the ball. France is no help.鈥�

Achmed is Cairo has something to say about that: 鈥淩egarding the UN, the US didn鈥檛 really go to the UN.鈥�

Shays: 鈥淭he UN supported us going in, they didn鈥檛 support them going in.Trying to be loved is kind of a pointless effort. We should just do the right thing. The ISG is about finding a solution.鈥�

We鈥檙e back from the news with Jim Muir, the 麻豆社鈥檚 correspondent in Baghdad: 鈥淭he ordinary people are barely following this arcane debate. They鈥檙e too busy just getting on with life and surviving. The elite are tuned in. They are aware that it is just part of the ongoing debate and is not part of official policy. The Iraqi government is aware of a lot of impatience from the US. There is no sign that Bush wants to have an unconditional rapport with Iran and Syria.鈥�

Patrick Cockburn writes for the UK Independent: 鈥淚s the Iraqi army up to? That鈥檚 not the question. From the beginning the occupation is unpopular and when you have US soldiers associated with the Iraqi soldiers then the Iraqi soldiers are seen as pawns.鈥�

Shays: The Iraqis are proud people as are the Turks and the Egyptians. The bottom line is we annihilated them but they don鈥檛 have any middle men and they cannot function without good guidance. We have basically started out totally fresh . . . but you need your NCOs your corporals and your sergeants and they don鈥檛 have any. . . we鈥檙e trying to help them identify candidates. The ISG didn鈥檛 spend much time in Iraq.鈥�

Nazia is in Morocco: 鈥淎ll the commentators are emphasising American policy in Iraq. The Us wanted to destroy Iraq.鈥�

Shays: I voted to send out troops to Iraq. I get no satisfaction seeing four men from my district coming back in American flags. This is not the way we wanted it to turn out. We wanted to replace Saddam and start a new government without much difficulty.鈥�

Chris is in North Carolina: 鈥淚鈥檓 less likely to believe that Bush will withdraw by 2008. The situation on the ground will dictate when America leaves Iraq.鈥�

Patrick: 鈥淭hey will not act energetically on any of the report鈥檚 recommendations. There will be a price from the Syrians and the Iranians. I鈥檓 doubtful if the White House would do it.鈥�

Shays: 鈥淚t鈥檚 a no-brainer. We鈥檙e trying to encourage the Iraqis to do that.鈥�

Nariman is in Tehran: 鈥淭he report was good. It鈥檚 a little bit late but there鈥檚 hope. I don鈥檛 think the Iranian government will accept the conditions easily. I think the Iranian government will stop enrichment 鈥� it knows the US needs its help.鈥�

Shays: 鈥淲e can still encourage the Iraqis to have this conversation. It鈥檚 not essential that it comes from the US. It鈥檚 more valuable if it comes from Iraq.鈥�

Zafar is in Iraq: 鈥淚t鈥檚 not necessary that the administration act on this report. The Iraqi government needs strength but it seems to be a puppet of the US. I鈥檝e lived here 18 years and people are kind of cynical.鈥�

Patrick: 鈥淭hat鈥檚 the view of the government from the Sunnis and the Shias. If you occupy any country there鈥檚 a reaction against it. Not surprisingly people think it鈥檚 a puppet of Washington.鈥�

Madeliene has asked Congressman Shays what is the definition of victory?

Congressman Shays: 鈥淚t鈥檚 when we can withdraw and Iraqis can fend for themselves. A government that can stand on its own two feet. The sympathy of the world will buy you nothing. We want the world to confront World problems. Europe in particular has been a little blind. A UN study pointed out that 23 Arab nations have a GDP smaller than Italy鈥檚 despite having 60% of the world鈥檚 oil. These countries are not doing well.鈥�

Patrick: They key thing now is stop an atrocious war with 1,000 people being killed every week.

Shays: The bottom line is we spent 400Bn dollars and have seen a lot of death but we do now see a government elected by a majority of the people. The Sunnis and the Shias simply aren鈥檛 that far apart. I think you鈥檒l see a government that will stand on its own two feet.

Patrick: 鈥淭his is a misunderstanding. The Shia need to say that they need their majority to be recognised but they also have to pledge not to dominate. The Sunni need to accept they will never rule as they once did. The Kurds need to decide whether they鈥檙e going to be part of Iraq.鈥�

Victoria: 鈥淚t鈥檚 a tricky situation. When it comes down to timescales well how long is a piece of string? Things will happen that will delay things. The report today is fantastic 鈥� I鈥檝e read it this evening. There are no big surprises.鈥�

Mohammed is in the US: 鈥淭he ISG is a step in the right direction.

Ayerty is in Ghana: 鈥淓verybody accepts America has to get out but how soon nobody knows. It鈥檚 a complex situation. All told it鈥檒l be difficult to keep Iraq as one nation.鈥�

Patrick: 鈥淭his report is much the most realistic doc I鈥檝e seen come out of the US government since the war started. It鈥檚 a basis, based on fact while previously I always felt I was dealing with a fantasy land.鈥�

Congressman Shays: 鈥淚 agree. This is a serious effort to be honest.鈥�

One of the best debates we鈥檝e had for a while here on WHYS. Awesome! And a big thankyou to Congressman Shays who stayed with us for the whole show!

Good night and sleep tight!