One step too far for Ireland?
Guyana - As dawn broke over the Providence stadium this morning, the pre-match talk was less about whether Ireland could cause another World Cup upset, as they did against Pakistan in the group stages, and more about how much damage South Africa could do.
England last week simply made sure they avoided a 鈥減otential banana skin鈥 against their neighbours but as the Super 8 progresses it is looking more and more likely that run rate may need to be used as a tie-breaker between teams on equal points to decide the semi-finalists.
As Australia and New Zealand have shown against Bangladesh this week, that means winning as quickly 鈥 and therefore brutally - as possible.
South Africa coach Mickey Arthur was giving mixed messages in his pre-match briefing, first saying: 鈥淥ur preparation, training and mental training going into this game would have been the same as any game because it's a Super 8.鈥
But he then added, with a hint of menace: "It's about getting two points but if we're very clinical and very good we will get those two points and I'm pretty sure we'll get them convincingly.鈥
When I , the former West Indies all-rounder who takes over as Ireland coach at the end of the tournament, he was pragmatic, saying: 鈥淪outh Africa will be more professional than Pakistan so it鈥檚 going to be harder but the guys have worked hard and they will try hard to cause the next upset.鈥
Especially for a nay-sayer like me, it was inspiring to see Ireland鈥檚 fighting performance on Friday to make England sweat.
However, the feeling around the squad now is that they are beginning to feel the fatigue of a schedule that has seen them away from home for all but 10 days since early January, playing more games than they would have done in six years before their recent rise.
They took part in the World Cricket League in Kenya, then an Intercontinental Cup match Abu Dhabi before the World Cup warm-ups and the three weeks of the tournament so far.
At least they have the confidence of having given South Africa a , reducing them to 91-8 before an Andrew Hall-led recovery.
Wicket-keeper Niall O鈥橞rien told my colleague Arlo White: 鈥淭hey鈥檙e a good side 鈥 up there as one of the best in the world 鈥 but we played well against them in Trinidad so we鈥檙e confident we can get a good result.
鈥淭eams like South Africa and Australia have got big hitters and they will come hard at us. Teams like England and Bangladesh probably haven鈥檛 got the players capable of doing what Gilchrist, Hayden and Smith can.
鈥淓veryone keeps talking about run rate but I think South Africa will concentrate on getting the win first and the run rate should look after itself.鈥
My heart says it would be great to see Ireland put in another battling showing, even if they don鈥檛 get as far as an upset, but my head is starting to worry about what the rest of the Super 8 has in store.
We should get a full game in as the ground seems to have recovered well from yesterday's evening-long downpour. It's already hot and we will see if South Africa can make it hotter.
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I am 25% Irish. I was thrilled when they beat Pakistan and I tyhink that with the same conditions ie rain berfore the game, and bowling first they may just take some wickets and cause a few jitters. It happened with Pakistan's erratic batting line up and you never klnow, as SA lost 4 wickets in 4 balls to Malinga when crusing to a 5 wicket win so you never know what can happen. Realistically though, SA will win but I hope Ireland put up a good show as they have done in every match so far.
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Go South Africa. Show the Irish how cricket is played.
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I am 25% Irish. I was thrilled when they beat Pakistan and I tyhink that with the same conditions ie rain berfore the game, and bowling first they may just take some wickets and cause a few jitters. It happened with Pakistan's erratic batting line up and you never klnow, as SA lost 4 wickets in 4 balls to Malinga when cruising to 5 wicket win so you never know what can happen. Realistically though, SA will win but I hope Ireland put up a good show as they have done in every match so far.
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Hmph, Pietersen will be fuming if he reads what the Irish are saying. Wasn't a run-a-ball enough?
The difference is not that England don't have a player capable of scoring that fast, but that Pietersen isn't an opening batsman and doesn't have the luxury of pushing the scoring rate at the cost of increasing the chance of getting out cheaply. Which also explains why his average in the last couple of years is a lot higher than Gilchrist's recent average.
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All the best to Ireland, i really hope to see a cup upset at m home country ground wish you had already beaten England.
The Irish Place in the Super 8 is well justified and everyone should ignore any critics who says otherwise.
GO ON IRELAND I WILL BE DRINKING A GUINNESS AND REALLY HOPE CELEBRATING THIS EVENING.
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Irishman Botha will have to beware of sledging which could come in any of the rainbow nation's umpteen official languages.
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was following the cricket and getting excited about Irelands performance which has been great but then you read the papers and you see where Kevin O'Brien is now hoping to declare for England and you then wonder well what's the point ? all our good Irish players ( Ed Joyce also ) are going to declare for England and then England comment on our Aussies and South African in the Irish squad ... ironic or what !!!
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yawn... lets have another discussion about how heroic the irish are, how they've lit up the tournament and how nasty the english are towards them. Lets also debate whether they deserve their place in the super 8s as I never tire of that one....
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There is no doubt that South Africa will win, but the question is by how much? The Irish players have such passion and determination to do well for their country, so i believe they will once again give their opposition a test. South Africa will win though.
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it seems the foreign born Irish team members have more pride in the shamrock than the "Irish men" on the team who are looking to Jump ship to play for England as soon as they get the chance?
All these excuses of "oh, i want to play test cricket". Its a disgrace, is the lure of kissing up to Pietersen, Flintoff et al stronger than winning for your country and making the folk back home proud or promoting the game in your home country? Makes me want to vomit and it doesn't do a lot for the already frosty reception the game gets in the country.
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England, West Indies and Bangladesh are probably the other three weaker and/or out of sorts sides in the Super 8 and Ireland have played all but Bangladesh so far - meaning a tough time coming up ..........
They need a bit of luck to get some helpful conditions on the bowling side in particular to give them a chance for something approaching an upset.
And Bray and Morgan probably need to fire on the batting side - and ... and .... and -
but they have been a team - they haven't got anyone exceptional - but on the other hand all 11 are capable of contributing...
Let's hope they can keep going a bit longer ....
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Lets get one point clear. Irrespective of how the results came Ireland qualified for the Super 8 by the rules laid out, so any arguments about whether they should be there or not are moot. The same goes for Bangladesh too. Saying that they shouldn't be there is ridiculous.
Beyond that, yes it is realistic that the other Test playing teams should expect to beat Ireland given their experience and ability. I suppose what changes is by how much these teams think they should win by.
For Ireland the task is to play each game as best they can, learn from these exceptional opportunities and continue on an upward curve so that they narrow that experience and ability gap between them and the Test playing nations.
On the way they can may create the shock result here and there in the hope of someday being in a position where such results come more often and are deemed less of a shock.
As an Irishman I am 100% behind the team and totally proud of their achievements so far and even if they lose all their other games here that won't change. They have done this country proud.
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yes - just had a sudden premonition - this rain is on so long now the Irish boys will think they are playing back home in wet West Ulster, come out firing and knock this bunch of Cape Town posers over --------- or have i just fallen asleep at my laptop.......
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---- I have a premonition that with all this rain the boys will think they are back in the Emerald Isle and roll this bunch of Cape Town posers over no problem -------- there again I may have just fallen asleep at my laptop .........
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I agree with Jim Walsh's comments, how can there even be a debate about whether or not Ireland or Bangladesh deserve to be there? They qualified end of.
Regarding Ireland's leading young cricketers wanting to play cricket professionally at the highest level for England is a different matter. Of course these guys have huge pride in playing for Ireland, but they got there by having huge ambition, self-confidence and drive. It is not easy to become an excellent cricketer in Ireland, the sport is looked down upon, poorly funded and largely ignored. These guys have always been willing to go to any lengths to improve. The next step, unfortunately for the Irish cricket team, is test cricket.
Go on Ireland! Ireland doing well is exactly what the game needs: a good kick up the rear. Perhaps now Scotland, Holland and other marginalised nations can think big!
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Martin. have you changed any of your views that you unleeshed the other day regarding Ireland and Bangladesh?
your friend Jonathon Agnew is saying that, because these teams are there, a lot of one sided matchs are taking place. I just don't know what will he, and may be you, call the matchs that the mighty West Indies played against Sri Lanka and New Zealand!!. we can call them multy sided, can't we?
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With reference to Irish players 'jumping ship' - they are perfectly entitled to, as regulations regarding qualification are in place for a reason. When Kevin Pietersen moved to England, he cited the quota system in South Africa blocking his rise to international cricket, and I heard a lot of sympathy, especially when he started destroying international bowling attacks for England.
Until Ireland are a Test cricket nation (and I hope one day they become one) they will lose their best players to the English team, if they are good enough. That is the reality of it, which is why Ireland appear to be victims of their own success.
You can't help wondering what might have happened if Ed Joyce was representing Ireland at this World Cup though.
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There's been a lot of negative comments from "Irish" fans about the defection of players to England. These "Paddy come lately's" don't know the first thing about Irish cricket or the setup of the sport in Ireland. Get a grip or simply get off the bandwagon!
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David (Cooke)
You're right. Niall O'Brien has said himself that he wants to play for England: sorry Irish fans, it's no good throwing the toys out of your prams, as cricket is an international game (although looking at Arsenal, Chelsea et al in the football world it's true that cricket teams are still very national in character). At the end of the day, wonderful though I think the Ireland team has been in its context (and yes they do very much deserve to be in the Super 8s) the team still isn't at that higher level which clearly O'Brien wants to be in.
At the end of the day, Ireland has an Aussie skipper (and an excellent one too) and I don't notice any Irish fans complaining about that!!!!!!
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Well, it's going as I expected. If Ireland had added aother 20 or 30 and then DL would have added, you never know, or if they;'d bowled first in what were tailor-made conditions for bowling. 71/1, 11.5 overs. Let's hope the spinners can put a bit of a noose on it. They have also had virtually all the luck: Kallis could have been out right at the start I do believe and Smith put over the field for 4. If they'd have had someone further back, SA could have been 2 or 3 down for about 30 and then a very different match indeed. SMITH-CAUGHT AND BOWLED!:):):):) 71/2!
It could be a major wicket, and Ireland won't go down without a fight.
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Today, the Guyanese are all Irish.
They deserve to be here, end of story.
Mohamed Z. O'Rahaman
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LBW appeal, missing leg stump. Also, if Kallis hadn't edged at the start opf the day, Ireland could have made serious inroads. If Kallis goes now, it could open it up bit again. Also, I don't dfel D/L took into proper account the sheer terrible difficulty of the conditions they batted in at the start properly (23/1 11 overs) by the end, they had added 130 in 24 overs. That's 5.08, so they should have added about another 20 onto what they added.
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Hello there,
Irish have been the pick of this worldcup. They havent won "comfortably" against any team yet, however what shows in them is the charecter. The body language, the amount of effort they put in all points to one direction and that is positive direction.
Given a couple of years of trampling against the test playing teams they will sure comeup as one of the very good sides in world of cricket. They need all round improvement in their cricket which they will get with more exposure to the international cricket.
I would say in three years time, if they surge ahead at a good rate they will become test playing nation.
regards,
Chakie
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Glynne Williams wrote: "Niall O'Brien ...wants to play for England: sorry Irish fans, it's no good throwing the toys out of your prams, as cricket is an international game At the end of the day, .....the team still isn't at that higher level which clearly O'Brien wants to be in.
At the end of the day, Ireland has an Aussie skipper and I don't notice any Irish fans complaining about that!"
Glynne, 'at the end of the day' you haven't a clue about how the Irish public view this. We are not used to our sportspeople in the vast majority of sports declaring for England. It hurts a lot of people quite honestly, given the history. I understand that the status quo in cricket restricts 'Test' or international cricket to a few of the mainly colonial states of the 'Empire'! And judging by the comments of Atherton and others coming into this tournament, as well as Agnew's comments throughout, many 'big names' in Cricket want to keep the status quo and not help to develop the game in associate countries. Perish the thought of Ireland or Scotland superceding England in cricket!!
If they did want to develop the sport they would try to dissuade the draining of top Irish talent to the English team.
Give these players something to strive for in their own country and I know they would be proud to continue in green.
There are four 'foreigners' in the Irish squad out of 15, I believe. All of them have lived and worked in Ireland for a number of years and some have strong Irish connections. None of them would have been top ranked in their native countries.
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It's a bit difficult to criticise the Irish players for wanting to hone their cricketing skills playing in the English county system (and even for England) when the England squad has a cricket academy in AUSTRALIA!!!
Athough it would no doubt fly in the face of history and very many fine traditions, I feel that with the emergence of strong Irish cricketers (and England's recent 5-0 hosing by Australia in the test series down under) an arguement could be made for discarding the 'England' side, and replacing it with a 'British' side. I believe that there is a 'combined' rugby touring side called 'the British lions', so there certainly is a sporting precedent, and given the presence in recent years of Scotsmen (Gavin Hamilton, Dougie Brown) and Welshmen (Robert Croft) in the 'England' team, (to say nothing of the Pietersen, Geraint Jones, Andrew Caddick (a New Zealand export, I believe) and Graeme Hick) it has certainly had its international aspects.
Well done to the Irish for resisting S. Africa so fiercely, by the way. I would have loved to have heard the commentators announcing that Kallis had in fact been caught and held, giving the Irish a sniff of a chance to take two points off the South Africans. Obviously, though the Irish are saving themselves up for the really big games against New Zealand, Sri Lanka, and the current cup-holders, Australia.
Charles Evans.
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Is the ginger XI out of your system yet? If so please can we do a 'mullet' sporting XI.
I'll start:
Scott Styris
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c.evans......wrong, wrong,wrong.....there is no precedent for discarding the England rugby team......the Lions is an add-on.......and one which complements the thrill of representing your country......and winning the World Cup...( you'll probably have to take our word for that one )......
across the board in international sport there are people of one nationality playing for another country.......it's a fact of life......with immigration / emigration so straightforward......although it's still hard to believe that the particular Scots / Welsh cricketers you mentioned played internationally........
In every sport, the World Cup campaign for the minnows ( am I allowed to call Ireland that ? ) gets harder as it goes on, so look out for carnage against Aus, SL etc.......still I guess that will be the fault of the "English" media too......great surname by the way
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I hope these things will happen to the Irish:
1) Trent Johnston bowling Ponting for a duck/ if possible and even better a golden duck, then as Ponting walks off does his funny little celebration dance
2)Anyone giving Matty Hayden a beamer which cause him to either be very angry or concessed
3) Any form of Sledging involving Gilly, ears and Dobby the house-elf
4) When batting, forward drive the ball accurately straight into McGrath
5) construct a sledging respond to McGrath that is finer than Eddo Brandes'
Please not i am not anti-aussie in any way or form or a very angry pom ;-)
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