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Removing Microformats from bbc.co.uk/programmes

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Michael Smethurst Michael Smethurst | 10:48 UK time, Monday, 23 June 2008

Since /programmes first went live we've been working to ensure that programme data was accessible to people and machines alike. The API design was baked in at the application design stage. Similarly we've worked on adding to HTML pages as a lightweight API. All broadcasts use the microformat to add start times, end times, broadcast channels etc.

Unfortunately there have been a over hCalendar's use of the . This uses the HTML abbreviation element to add machine data to pages. Our concerns were:

  • the effect on blind users using screen readers with abbreviation expansion turned on where abbreviations designed for machines would be read out
  • the effect on partially sighted users using screen readers where tool tips of abbreviations designed for machines would be read out
  • the effect of incomprehensible tooltips on users with cognitive disabilities
  • the potential fencing off of abbreviations to domains that need them (travel - , finance - etc)

Until these issues are resolved the Â鶹Éç semantic markup standards have been updated to prevent the use of non-human-readable text in abbreviations. As I type the revised standard has not been published - I'll update this post with a link when that happens. Updated standard is here. For this reason we've taken the decision to remove the hCalendar microformat from /programmes until:

  • either the Â鶹Éç accessibility group does further testing and declares the abbreviation design pattern to be safe to use
  • or the microformats community settles on an accessible alternative to the abbreviation design pattern. has already been started by .

hCalendar will be gone from /programmes by the next deploy (probably this Thursday).

In the meantime we'll be looking at the possible use of (a slightly bigger S technology similar to microformats but without some of the more unexpected side-effects).

Apologies to who's been using hCalendar to help with screen-scraping of /programmes. We know we've been for and the /programmes development team will be campaigning to bring this up the product backlog. In the meantime schedules are already available as json and xml. Leave a comment if there are specific views / formats you'd like to see next.

Probably best to note that this only affects microformats using the abbreviation design pattern. Any and microformats will remain (at least until/if we fully embrace RDF-a). And probably also best to note that this is not a decision that has come down from on high by the . The /programmes team has been concerned about this issue for a few months now and it's good to get some clarity here.

Stay tuned to radiolabs and we'll keep you updated if / as things change.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    Good call.

    I hope this encourages the microformats community to find a better solution more quickly.

  • Comment number 2.

    See also :

    "I’m not sure I have enough faith in the Microformats community to come to an agreement on this topic. In my short time following the various Microformats mailing lists, I quickly became disillusioned with the community and administrators. I witnessed several instances of heavy handed administration, including the banning of users. Frequently, no real reason was given and I was left w/ the impression that it wasn’t much of a community after all."

  • Comment number 3.

    The HTML5 draft has introduced the time element to solve this problem.

  • Comment number 4.

    Here's a link to the time element in the HTML5 draft.

  • Comment number 5.

    It would be nice to see some XML for categories and individual programmes as well as schedules. I wouldn't have thought this would be difficult, seeing as you're already building HTML with this content.

    What I'd like to build using this is a 'series link' programme that tracks individual series' on the iPlayer.

  • Comment number 6.

    @lachlanhunt - a "time" element won't solve this porblem for coordinates, nor any other use in microformats.

  • Comment number 7.

    @Michael Smethurst - Sadly, the opinion of at least some in the microformats cabal is that you "don't really understand the issue":



    Such denial is typical of the response there when the issue was raised previously, over a year ago.

  • Comment number 8.

    A question: why no iCal option on programmes? hCal is just an in-xhtml reformatting of iCal. It seems like that would be the first choice and hcal would be a second runner up. In addition to serving machines you can serve humans as well who use MS Outlook, Apple's iCal, Mozilla's Sunbird, Google's Calender, Facebook etc etc (and more):

  • Comment number 9.

    @kurisu - feeds for brands and series should be along soon-ish. always good to get feedback on what's wanted

    @pigsonthewing - i'm sure we've all made the mistake of forgetting what we type whilst chatting is public. remind me never to annoy you ;-)

    @cleverbyhalf - iCal is also on the backlog. we need to make broadcasts addressable first tho. now that hCal has gone I'm sure iCal will move up the backlog

  • Comment number 10.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 11.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

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