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"Before, we helped people die with dignity. Now we help them to live".

Those were the words of a woman in Mozambique explaining how she and her fellow church volunteers use antiretrovirals to deal with HIV.

It's more than two decades since the world became aware of Aids and HIV. More than 30 million people are now affected, a large proportion of them in Africa. Gary Swart has witnessed something of the scale of the havoc at first hand, both in his native South Africa and in his work for the relief agency Tearfund. He's now the organisation's International Programme Director and, ahead of a visit to Wales this week, he talks to Roy Jenkins in this week's "All Things Considered" (Sunday 2 November at 8.30am, repeated on Wednesday 5 November at 6.30pm), about church efforts to combat HIV/AIDS, and also of the launch of a new initiative to identify what are being termed 'inspired individuals' - social entrepreneurs who can be agents of change.

Spirituality or religion - do we have to choose? It's the title of a book about to be published from Baptist minister Gethin Abraham Williams. He's spent most of his ministry seeking to build bridges between churches of different traditions, and was general secretary of Cytun, Churches Together in Wales, before his retirement two years ago.

He's now addressing an even bigger chasm - between religion, and those who believe it to be unnecessary for the meeting of their spiritual needs, and maybe even a hindrance.

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