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Roads? Where we’re going, do we need roads? Some countries think they've already got too many. In the face of a climate catastrophe, the Austrian and Welsh governments are reconsidering plans to expand their road networks, moving away from a car-first model to better include more environmentally modes of transport. In Wales, they’ve all but halted any new roads as Climate Minister Julie James tells us, and are instead looking at improving public transport and active travel measures. In Austria we speak to Leonore Gewessler, Minister for Climate Action in the national government, who says that to build more roads would only attract more traffic and therefore more pollution. Electric vehicles could go some way to lowering carbon emissions, but the take up isn’t fast enough, says transport researcher Giulio Mattioli and so reducing reliance on cars altogether has to be a priority. And that means reimagining how cities are built to accommodate convenience, but without the car – transport planner Susan Claris tells us how that can be done. Today’s programme is presented by Tamasin Ford and produced by Russell Newlove.