麻豆社

30 January 2024

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 89

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Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

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EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I鈥檝e just come from my house in Scotland to talk about a house in Scotland, well a castle really. And they tell me that my ceremonial pouch has gone red, so even though I thought we were interviewing a Faithful, there must be a Traitor in my midst.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Theme music

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Hello, this is Access All, I鈥檓 Emma Tracey. We鈥檙e the 麻豆社鈥檚 disability and mental health podcast, and it is another hugely exciting day in Access All Towers because this time we have Mollie Pearce from the Traitors. Oh yes we do, lots and lots of spoilers and some fantastic chat. If you listen and you like what you hear, please let us know accessall@bbc.co.uk is our email, and we鈥檙e on X, formerly known as Twitter, @bbcaccessall.

Let鈥檚 get straight down to it. Are you a Faithful or are you a Traitor? It鈥檚 the show that鈥檚 been gripping the whole nation for the last four weeks and came to its dramatic conclusion on Friday night.

[Clip from Traitors]

CLAUDIA-听听听 You are the last surviving players on the Traitors. [Dramatic music in the background] Mollie, please reveal are you a Faithful or are you a Traitor?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I鈥檓 a Faithful.

CLAUDIA-听听听 Harry, please reveal are you a Faithful or are you a Traitor?

HARRY-听听听听听听听 I am, and since the start, been a Traitor.

FEMALE-听听听听听 Oh my god.

FEMALE-听听听听听 Oh my god.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Spoiler alert [claxon sounds] Harry won all the money.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 [Laughs] Yeah, he did.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The Traitors has been pretty decent when it comes to disability representation this year, we had amputee Jonny, we had Charlie who鈥檚 hard of hearing, and the last disabled contestant standing is our guest who鈥檚 been openly chatting about limb difference and ulcerative colitis throughout her time on the show. This is your final warning claxon [claxon sounds] Yes, I did already tell you the winner, but we are about to drop a whole whack of spoilers in over the next few minutes. I am absolutely delighted to welcome from the Traitors, Mollie Pearce. Mollie, you are so welcome, thank you for coming in.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Awh.听 Thank you for having me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Oh, goodness me, so excited. How do you feel now that the show has ended?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 It鈥檚 so strange, because obviously we filmed it a while back so kind of end of summertime, and then you just go back to your normal life. So you have this crazy experience and this massive adventure, and then that鈥檚 it, like I was back working as a healthcare assistant at the hospital.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Really?听 So you went straight back to work and your normal job.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah. I think I had two days or three days and then I was like, 鈥業鈥檒l go back to work.鈥� And you obviously can鈥檛 talk to anyone about it either.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yes, you鈥檙e kind of a traitor in your life then because you鈥檙e lying about what鈥檚 happened.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah. I didn鈥檛 lie on the show but now I have to lie in real life, so interesting.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You really, really didn鈥檛 lie in the show. Did you get one vote for banishment?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I didn鈥檛 get one vote. I didn鈥檛 actually even hear my name in anyone鈥檚 mouth. So crazy. I thought watching it back it would be interesting to see who spoke about me and who thought I might be a Traitor, but I don鈥檛 think I was even mentioned.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I think you were the only one who was never mentioned.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I know.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What a brilliant thing, honestly.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I wonder why? Maybe I just looked way to innocent to be a Traitor.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Can we go back just to this big moment at the end of the show on Friday evening. You seem to have built up quite a friendship with Harry, who won. How close were you to him, and how did you feel when you found out that he was a Traitor?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I think as a group we were super-close, especially towards the end because you spend a lot of time together. I know the public only see an hour three nights a week, but we were together every day all day. I think that鈥檚 what people forget, and you do build real bonds. Also, you don鈥檛 have communication with your family and friends so they are your support system and they are who you are spending all your time with and that kind of thing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So you鈥檙e in a castle in Scotland.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 We are in a castle.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e all together all day, staying separately it seems from the show?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e playing sort of a big murder mystery game. How would you describe the Traitors in a nutshell?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Stressful.听 Very stressful.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Just so many emotions all the time. Like you go from doing the mission and all working as a team and you鈥檙e super-happy and celebrating that you鈥檝e just added to the prize pot, and then suddenly you鈥檙e at the round table banishing one of your friends. It鈥檚 hard, it鈥檚 a difficult thing mentally especially because you do get close to these people, like I said, and you make real connections with them.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And you made a real connection to Harry. Or you thought you did.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 We were really, really close. I think people need to remember it was a game and the friendships that you do build in there are still real, and people had certain roles in the game and that鈥檚 also okay.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah.听 So do you still speak to Harry then?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yes. Me and Harry are fine. The gossip that everyone wants, me and Harry are fine.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I know you are. But your reaction was amazing, it was as if someone said, 鈥淭his is the best way to do reality television, go do it like this.鈥�

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I think it actually is so good that it looks scripted, it鈥檚 so perfect, like the ending is so perfect. But yeah, I mean it鈥檚 hard finding out your friend鈥檚 been lying to do you, it is hard, but it鈥檚 the game and we all signed ourself up to a game.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Have you any regrets?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Wiping Harry鈥檚 name off my board maybe.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Ahh! Because you nearly voted for him on the very last episode but you changed your mind.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I know. But I think I stuck with my heart and I鈥檓 not going to hate myself for that. I would have found it really hard to betray Harry, especially when I had had suspicions of Jaz. I mean I鈥檇 only voted for him like two round tables before, so it would have been super out of character for me to just like switch up on him from one vote. As much as I kind of obviously gathered what was going on in that room, I just couldn鈥檛. I don鈥檛 know, I would have felt so guilty if I took that money from Harry right at the end if he was a Faithful.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Okay, so you really couldn鈥檛 bear that, that was more the reason why you-

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I think there was quite a lot of people that trusted Harry, it wasn鈥檛 just me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 And I think that there was a couple of us that if they were in my situation it probably would have ended the same, yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You were very emotional at the end. Did you get looked after afterwards? 听Did people check in to make sure you鈥檙e okay?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah. The team are amazing. All the way through even the casting 听process and even now the team are great. So yeah, really appreciate them, and the welfare is amazing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Seeing as we鈥檙e a disability podcast, can we chat a bit about the stuff that you talked about really openly in the Traitors. It was really, really great to see you doing all the challenges really brilliantly, climbing and swimming. You do have ulcerative colitis.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What is that?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis when I was 11. It鈥檚 inflammation in your bowel. They don鈥檛 really know what causes it. Well nothing really causes it, it is just like an autoimmune disorder. It鈥檚 basically where you get ulcers in your colon. There鈥檚 also Crohn鈥檚, which affects your whole digestive system, whereas ulcerative colitis is just your large intestine. So yeah, I was really unwell for a long time, from 11 to 18, and then I had my surgery when I was 18.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So you had surgery, and what was that?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I had surgery to remove my large intestine.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Big surgery.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 That colon鈥檚 in the bin, like yeah, don鈥檛 know where he is now.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And I want to ask did you get to see it, but that鈥檚 disgusting.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I wish I did. Do you know what, apparently they鈥檙e like six foot or something like that, I鈥檝e heard, so it would have been great to see it. I also want to know what they did with it. Did they literally just chuck it in the bin? 听It would be interesting to know.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Or are they doing scientific experiments on it somewhere?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Let鈥檚 hope so. I hope my colon鈥檚 going to good use somewhere. It鈥檚 not in my body anymore.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So instead of a colon you鈥檝e got a stoma bag.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yes. Basically now my small intestine sticks outside of my stomach, and I have a stoma bag over the top which collects my waste.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And what was that like having that throughout all those really busy challenges, staying away from home with people you didn鈥檛 know? Do you have any trouble with the stoma? Does it cause you problems ever? 听Were you worried about it?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I think for me because I was so poorly before, my stoma has completely altered my life in the best way. It鈥檚 given me the option to go do these things. Whereas when I was suffering with ulcerative colitis I couldn鈥檛 be away from a toilet, so I would never have been able to do their missions in the middle of a field or the middle of a loch in Inverness.

My life heavily relied on a toilet before my surgery, so actually having a stoma bag is the best thing I鈥檝e ever done. I actually went travelling not last summer, the summer before, to Greece and we did island hopping, me and my boyfriend, and that was obviously a great experience to see how travelling was with a stoma bag, and how much supplies I needed and stuff like that. So that was really great.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So that was a sort of good prep for the Traitors.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And did you get any extra time or support or anything like that to look after your stoma?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I call my stoma Sid by the way.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Sid. 听I鈥檒l call it Sid from now on.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah. And I call him a he for some reason as well, so if I relate to my stoma as Sid that鈥檚 who I鈥檓 talking about.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Okay.

MOLLIE听听听听听听听 He鈥檚 pretty well behaved, I can鈥檛 lie. Touch wood, he鈥檚 been great. I change my bag every three to four days and I just empty it throughout the day normally when I go to the loo. Yeah, he doesn鈥檛 cause me many problems.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You鈥檙e quite proud of Sid.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah, very proud of Sid. 听He鈥檚 helped me in a lot of ways.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Is Sid one of the reasons why you got into modelling? Because you do some modelling around disability stuff now, don鈥檛 you.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I actually got into modelling because of my limb difference. I saw a lady in Primark who had one arm, and I鈥檇 never seen a disability model before, I couldn鈥檛 actually believe what I was seeing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So you walked into Primark, saw a model with a limb difference and said, 鈥淚 could do that.鈥�

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I didn鈥檛 think I could do that, but I thought I want to do that. The way that model made me feel in that moment, I鈥檇 never seen that representation before, so I was like that is how I want to be for other people. So I kind of looked into it a little bit more and then, yeah, I got with an agency who have been amazing. Then obviously had my surgery at 18 and was like, 鈥榃ell, let鈥檚 just model for this as well, why not?鈥� Double whammy, who doesn鈥檛 want someone with one hand and stoma bag!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] That is really an unusual and unique combination, I would say.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 It is. 听It definitely is.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It must have made you feel something when you did get ulcerative colitis, and also having had a limb difference you鈥檙e like, 鈥極h my goodness, second thing.鈥�

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 My limb difference has never really been a problem, if I鈥檓 honest. I was never bullied for it or anything. You get the odd nasty comment. But I had such a great group of friends and such a good family support, my parents have been amazing, my brother is great, and now my partner, he doesn鈥檛 see my disabilities at all. Growing up I didn鈥檛 have any problems with my hand. I would now and again hide it in photos and stuff, I wasn鈥檛 fully confident with it, but it definitely didn鈥檛 affect my day-to-day life.

But then when I was diagnosed with colitis, it was so interesting because it鈥檚 an invisible illness, you look at someone and they look so healthy but really you are suffering so much and you are so unwell. I remember I used to be in hospital a lot when I was in school and people would be like, 鈥淎re you going into hospital because of your hand?鈥� and I thought, 鈥楴o babe, they鈥檙e not growing my hand in a lab. The hospital鈥檚 not helping my limb difference, that is what it is, that鈥檚 not changing.鈥� I think because people can鈥檛 see it, it鈥檚 super-hard to explain to people.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah. But that鈥檚 so interesting that at your age people thought that you were trying to do something about the fact that you were missing a hand.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 think it was that. I mean we were young, we were in school.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah I know, but they assumed it was your hand.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah. Because they can see that. Whereas with an invisible illness you can鈥檛 see it, and it鈥檚 actually really hard to explain that to people.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah, absolutely. In terms of the challenges, one of the very first ones your hand actually came in 鈥渉andy鈥�.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Didn鈥檛 it! 听And I slipped right out them ropes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Because you were tied up and you had to untie yourself and you were just like 鈥渂oom, boom, boom, done鈥�.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I know. 听That was a good moment, wasn鈥檛 it, I think.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Really good moment. Then with your stoma you were in the loch straight afterwards.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What was your least favourite challenge?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 The funeral was definitely my least favourite. That was an emotional day. I think it was just like all the emotions, it was just very intense from start to finish for me that day, it was a lot.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So it was nothing to do with how hard they were physically or anything?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I loved the physical missions so much, that was my favourite part of the day. Yeah, I think they were such a good break from all the mind games we were playing and stuff like that, and it was a really good bonding experience, the missions.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah. Just messing with your head even more, 鈥楢ctually I really like these people.鈥� And what was your favourite challenge?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I loved the catapult mission. I think we all became really close on that mission.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Tell us about that.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 That was quite a physical mission actually. We started at the castle and we had to basically collect all these objects to build the catapult at the finish line, which was a long way away. It was a lot of teamwork involved because there was a lot of things to carry, it was super-physical, there was a lot of hills. But we all cheered each other on, and when people did start to struggle we would be a good support system and I think we just all helped each other.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 But you missed out on a shield that day.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 But I survived anyway. 听Do you know what I mean?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Was that a tricky one, the catapult, with the one hand?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I didn鈥檛 even think about it. I mean maybe it would have helped me in my favour, that was probably a two hand job. But I mean I didn鈥檛 need the shield anyway so who cares?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You just go through on personality alone, absolutely.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 And my friend was a Traitor. Miles and Harry and, well, all of them.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 So you did have a plan. Did you get in with the Traitors, was that actually your plan, did you know they were Traitors all along?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Don鈥檛 be silly, I didn鈥檛 have a clue. I didn鈥檛 have a clue. I actually struggled to even come to terms with the fact that we had hard evidence on Miles, he鈥檚 so lovely and so loveable. He鈥檚 such a good comfort person, that when they were on about the poison and everything I was like, 鈥楴o, it鈥檚 got to be somebody else, it can鈥檛 be Miles.鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Awh. What would have happened if you鈥檇 been chosen to be a Traitor, how would you have coped with that do you think?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 think I would have done very well. I think I would have been gone a lot earlier in the game. I found it quite stressful and overwhelming anyway, and I think just the added pressure of lying. I thought I could lie but I just really don鈥檛 know if I could now.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The stress, the overwhelm, the not wanting to lie, that sounds like the whole Traitors to me. Why did you apply? Did you not realise it was going to be so stressful?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Honestly, I loved it. I鈥檓 talking about it like I didn鈥檛 love it, but I absolutely loved it. I鈥檓 not actually that big on confrontation, but it鈥檚 so interesting because I didn鈥檛 have any confrontation in there.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 No, you didn鈥檛.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 And the missions really appealed to me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 There was a really emotional moment with you in the penultimate episode of the show.

听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听听 [Clip from Traitors]

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 [Music in background] I鈥檝e kind of spent most of my life since I was 11 quite unwell. I kind of wanted to advocate for people with a limb difference and a stoma. If I look at myself three years ago I couldn鈥檛 even leave the house at points, so to now be here running around with you guys is kind of crazy.

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听 A bunch of strangers.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yeah. I really struggled to get my head around the fact that I was going to have a stoma. I wasn鈥檛 prepared for it. At 18 years old you kind of want to just be out enjoying yourself with your friends, not having this lifechanging surgery. Since my surgery I鈥檝e got my life back. I realise I could wear what I wanted, I could go out, I could enjoy myself, it completely changed my life. I鈥檝e had so much of my life taken away and controlled by my illness, I want to live, and I don鈥檛 want to regret not going travelling. 听I never thought I鈥檇 make it this far.

MALE-听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 crazy.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 It is. 听It鈥檚 such a crazy thing. 听Everyone鈥檚 done so well.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Gosh. You said you never thought you鈥檇 get this far, and that was at the second to last episode. Did you not think you would get to that episode?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Oh god no. I was preparing myself to be the first to go. Me and my parents, my parents were like, 鈥淒on鈥檛 worry, no matter what happens, even if we see you in two days you鈥檝e done so well.鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I love the way parents manage your expectations.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I know. But the thing is you do have to go in with the mindset that you could because someone does go first. It鈥檚 not a personal thing either because it鈥檚 so soon into the game.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The clip showed you telling all about how ill you were, like you鈥檝e told me. How was it being so vulnerable in front of everyone when they were really watching at the point, everyone鈥檚 really, really keen to get each other at that stage. And why choose that point?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I think it was just a nice point. We鈥檇 got to the final and we were just celebrating us all, and I think it just made me realise how far I鈥檇 come from that girl who was so unwell and couldn鈥檛 leave the house at times, and it just felt like a really nice moment to share with them. I鈥檓 so happy I did because I think for a lot of people, especially with Crohn鈥檚 and colitis, it can be such a hidden disease just because it is a bit of a taboo, and it鈥檚 just nice to show the world that it is a thing and a lot of people suffer from it. And you can be any age as well when you have a stoma bag. I think a lot of people think it鈥檚 an older generation, but the younger generation also it does affect.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Everyone had a story on the Traitors and everyone used their story at this point. Was there a little bit of playing the disability card at the end just to make sure you got through as far as you could do?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Honestly no. I think a lot of people knew my story anyway, we鈥檇 all spoken a lot. But I mean if that is it and it worked then yay, go me! No, I don鈥檛 think it was like that, I think we just had a really nice dinner and we all decided at that point it was a good time to open up, and it was nice.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 There鈥檚 been a bit of horribleness on social media about the choices you made on the last episode, but generally what鈥檚 been the reaction from your 鈥渟tomates鈥�, so other people with stomas, and other people online?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I think it鈥檚 been amazing for them to see someone on their TV with a stoma bag, because like I said it can be a bit of a taboo. I think it鈥檚 super-important as well that we do advocate for it and we do show people that anyone can have a stoma. You could see someone on the street and you would have no idea what they鈥檙e going through. But yeah, the negative backlash I think is always going to happen, and no matter what decision I made that night I think it would have upset people either way because both sides had supporters.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And were you given some preparation for that sort of thing happening?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Yes. I think that as much preparation as you鈥檙e given, it is still hard though once it happens. I don鈥檛 think you can ever fully prepare yourself for that backlash.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What happens next for Mollie Pearce? Are you just going back to life? You鈥檝e already gone back, but is it going to change now that it鈥檚 been televised?

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 I think that I鈥檓 definitely going to use my platform and keep spreading awareness and keep being an advocate for these things. I鈥檓 just going to see what happens, see what opportunities come up, and try take them all on-board and enjoy it.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 We鈥檙e really looking forward to seeing what you do next and we will be following you every step of the way, and hopefully you鈥檒l come back and see us again. The Traitors is available to watch now on 麻豆社 iPlayer. Thank you so much Mollie Pearce for coming in for a chat.

MOLLIE-听听听听听听 Thank you so much for having me.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Music

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What a woman Mollie is. Oh my goodness, it was so great to hear how open and honest she is about living with a stoma and a limb difference and her time on the Traitors. What a lucky person I am to get to speak to all these amazing people. Subscribe to Access All on 麻豆社 Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts from, and you can contact us on accessall@bbc.co.uk.

CLAUDIA-听听听 The time for talk is over.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 See you next week. 听Bye.

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