麻豆社

20th July 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All 鈥� episode 62

听

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

听

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 My kid was drawing a picture the other day, Nikki...

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 ...of Spidermum.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Spidermum?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Not Spiderman, Spidermum. It was a mixture I think of me in a spider superhero suit.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Ohhh. I bet you looked good in that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Thank you.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. I鈥檝e seen you in a jumpsuit.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And he was in one room and I was in the other, and he was kind of calling through different bits of the picture that he was doing, and he said, 鈥淚鈥檓 now just going to do some blind eyes.鈥�

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 [Sings - blind eyes burning like fire]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Anyway.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 What do blind eyes look like?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 know. I asked him and he said, 鈥淚t鈥檚 just when you see someone on TV and they鈥檙e blind, they have blind eyes.鈥�

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 know whether you could always tell that, you know.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well, I guess if it鈥檚 like a cartoon and someone鈥檚 blind, what do they do to their eyes to make them look blind?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 know. Do they do the full Stevie Wonder and put the shade on and that?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I don鈥檛 know. I said, 鈥淒o I have blind eyes?鈥� and he came over and he said, 鈥淵eah,鈥� and he went away and he finished his blind eyes. But I do have blind eyes, I do understand that.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 You have beautiful eyes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檓 not-

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 No, I know, I know, yeah. 听听听

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檓 perfectly happy with my blind eyes.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And I can鈥檛 exactly stop them moving around, and nor would I want to stop them moving around, like they do all the time all day every day.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 How would you draw [sings] blind eyes?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I know how to turn a blind eye, Nikki, but how do you draw one?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 [Laughs]

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Theme music

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 another edition of Access All. It鈥檚 that podcast from the 麻豆社 about disability and mental health that you just can鈥檛 miss. That鈥檚 what it says on the script, Em. I鈥檓 Nikki Fox and I鈥檓 in London where it鈥檚 22 degrees Celsius.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檓 Emma Tracey, and I鈥檓 in Edinburgh where it鈥檚 17 Celsius.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Now if you鈥檙e in the US, that鈥檚 72 and 62 Fahrenheit, because we do have a global audience don鈥檛 we, Emma.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Absolutely, all over the world.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 But we are doing quite well weather wise, aren鈥檛 we, in the UK. We are thinking of anyone who鈥檚 experiencing that extreme heat that鈥檚 going on at the moment wherever you are. Now, what鈥檚 on the programme today, Emma Tracey?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well I鈥檒l tell you where the temperature is definitely rising, Nikki Fox, and that is on the argument around closing rail ticket offices in England. Legal proceedings and even direct action have been talked about amongst the disability community, I have to say. And later, [music in background] remember when everyone went absolutely wild for sea shanties during lockdown, Nikki?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yes, I do.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well the man who started it is here with us this week on Access All.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 鈥淎hhhh鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 We will tell you why later.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 We鈥檙e very excited.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Like, subscribe, tell your fiends about it. We are on 麻豆社 Sounds, or wherever you get your podcast from.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Music

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Now this is a story that鈥檚 been hotting up for several weeks, and that is the proposal to close hundreds of ticket offices at railway stations across England. The Department for Transport says it鈥檚 about enhancing the role of station workers to get them out from behind their computers and roaming the station where they can offer advice and support to passengers. But lots of disabled people have told Access All they鈥檙e really worried about losing a central point of contact at train stations. And now disabled activists, Doug Paulley, who you might remember from last week he was on our show, and Sarah Leadbetter, have applied for a judicial review to look into the consultation process to try and squash the whole idea, as they claim the plans discriminate against disabled people. Sarah Leadbetter has joined us today. Hello Sarah, you鈥檙e on the line, aren鈥檛 you?

SARAH-听听听听听听听 I am here. Hello everybody.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Hello. Thank you so much for joining us. We are also joined by Sassy Wyatt. I just love your name, Sassy.

SASSY-听听听听听听听听 Hey everyone.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Sassy, you鈥檙e a regular train user, aren鈥檛 you, and an accessible tourism consultant. Thank you for joining us too.

SASSY-听听听听听听听听 Thank you for having me.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 First let鈥檚 get the detail, and there鈥檚 no better woman than Emma Tracey. Go for it, Emma.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well, okay then.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 That was a build up, wasn鈥檛 it?!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Train companies are planning to close hundreds of ticket offices in train stations around England over the next three years. Some ticket kiosks will remain in large stations, but elsewhere staff will be on concourses to sell tickets, offer travel advice or give assistance. You might think you鈥檙e actually missing something because it鈥檚 been a while since your local station has even had a ticket office, and that鈥檚 because only three in every five stations currently has one, and only about 12.5% of tickets sold are actually sold via ticket offices, the others have been online or via ticket machines. And it鈥檚 not just Sarah and Doug who are worried about these proposed changes. Earlier this week five city mayors, who are all from the Labour Party, announced that they were also preparing a legal challenge.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Sassy, you run the company Blind Girl Adventures, which sounds amazing actually, all about accessibility, and you use trains as well yourself to travel around the UK. We know you鈥檙e against this change, but for people that don鈥檛 really get it, because the Department for Transport are saying it鈥檚 fine because we鈥檙e just going to put people on the concourse, what鈥檚 the problem?听 But can you really explain to us why getting rid of the physical office is going to impact disabled people and really affect the kind of assistance that they give?

SASSY-听听听听听听听听 For me and many other disabled people, we rely on the ticket offices because it鈥檚 manned by a human, and human contact is what most of us thrive on when being completely autonomous and independent. I have a guide dog and she鈥檚 trained to find things like the kiosk, and she isn鈥檛 necessarily trained to find the people in hi-vis jackets because that could be any person in a hi-vis jacket. And I am quite terrified of the accidents that have happened to previous visually impaired people that have even lost their lives because there hasn鈥檛 been the blister paving to let you know. So if you add all that, that all the stations around the UK and in England don鈥檛 have that yet, and then you鈥檙e expecting a visually impaired person to quite literally stumble their way around to find a human, then the closure of a ticket office takes away the human aspect of the support and your confidence and independence.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What additional help do you use the ticket office for, so besides getting your assistance, Sassy?

SASSY-听听听听听听听听 I use the ticket offices for getting cheaper tickets, because as you mentioned earlier, the kiosk machines don鈥檛 always give you the best prices. And as someone that travels continuously using trains for work, I鈥檓 not always going to know ahead of time what the best station is, which is the most accessible station, and so by speaking to a human that not only may know their local area, but because they have access to the system when you鈥檙e buying the tickets, then it鈥檚 really good for you to just have that discussion. One of my favourite things is most people don鈥檛 know but if you are visually impaired and you have a Certificate of Visual Impairment, you can get same day returns which is actually 50% off. If you鈥檙e with someone who is sighted and they鈥檙e escorting you, you could get 50% off any day, any time off-peak travelling, which most people aren鈥檛 aware of. But then you can鈥檛 get that on a system, on a ticket kiosk.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 A lot of people are now being asked to use the Passenger Assistance app, Sassy, to book tickets online. How does that compare to using the ticket office?

SASSY-听听听听听听听听 The passenger assistance app is good. I personally have used it, I鈥檝e worked with them in the past. However, they don鈥檛 give you the tickets to buy, the options, they literally just give you the option to book passenger assistance, so you again aren鈥檛 going to get any other discounts. You have to pre-book your ticket separately through National Rail before you then use the Passenger Assistance app. Another incident I had on a really personal level was where all my trains were cancelled and delayed going to Heathrow a few months ago, and Passenger Assistance I couldn鈥檛 get hold of them. There was nothing on their website or on their app to tell me that all my trains had been cancelled and delayed. If it wasn鈥檛 for the ticket staff that worked there in the offices, I wouldn鈥檛 have been able to get an accessible way to my onward journey for work.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I used the app yesterday and the default place for you to meet a personal assistant is...

SASSY-听听听听听听听听 At the ticket office.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 ...at the ticket office. [Laughs] As we mentioned earlier, Sarah Leadbetter and Doug Paulley have applied for a judicial review. Sarah, you鈥檙e another blindy. Tell us about why you feel so strongly about this that you鈥檝e decided to take legal action?

SARAH-听听听听听听听 Well for starters, I didn鈥檛 actually know there was a consultation happening at my very rural only two platform station. I knew there was a piece of paper on the wall of the ticket office next to the platform at the train station, but I didn鈥檛 know what was on it because I can鈥檛 read any print. I didn鈥檛 know what as going to happen. Then it was read out to me that I was going to get a mobile person that at least once a week will turn up. But I regularly use the trains on theatre, going on holiday, all sorts of things, so that wouldn鈥檛 be good enough.

But the thing is, I鈥檓 a disabled woman standing on the platform by myself with my guide dog, Nelly, and the thing is, how do I know that the person who鈥檚 coming towards me saying they鈥檙e a member of staff, is actually a member of staff and not a random person that鈥檚 going to harm me and my guide dog?听 I also need a ramp put down because I had an accident seven years ago. I need a ramp going down because there鈥檚 quite a big gap from the platform onto the train, and this is why we need it. But to say people are going to roam and they鈥檙e going to do this and whatever, they do that sort of thing anyway, they walk round the station, but you know where they are because they鈥檙e always at the ticket office, and it鈥檚 accessible for all of us to find.

The thing I鈥檓 also worried about, I went to another station and he was doing access, people were crowding round him for information on their trains, and they didn鈥檛 realise that Nelly and me were nearly pushed to the edge of the tactile paving and near to the edge of the platform. If a member of staff鈥檚 going to be doing tickets, information, access and all the rest of it, that鈥檚 going to happen more and more and more.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Is it these kind of points that you鈥檙e raising with the courts then, Sarah?

SARAH-听听听听听听听 It is. Especially that the consultation is unlawful because the website isn鈥檛 accessible. Each train company is putting different wording into their consultation, different language, it鈥檚 very, very complicated, and you haven鈥檛 got a clue. It鈥檚 pages and pages. And if you like using screen reader, it鈥檚 very hard to go through all these pages, it鈥檚 a PDF. It鈥檚 not available on every single alternative format, like I need audio, or people might need Easy Read or Braille or BSL or anything like that, it鈥檚 not available in alternative formats. It鈥檚 not accessible for the people whose voices need to be heard to take part in it, because we鈥檙e the ones that use a ticket office and need a ticket office and members of staff to travel on trains safely.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 How does all of this make you feel, Sarah, on a personal note?

SARAH-听听听听听听听 Very, very angry. I got through cancer, I got through shielding, and this makes me feel like why did I train with a long white cane?听 Why did I get my first guide dog Akiki and now Nelly?听 It鈥檚 taken away my independence, I鈥檒l have to go in taxis or family or friends might drive me around. For example, where I live in my village in Narborough in Leicestershire, I just walk to the station and tell this member of staff I鈥檓 there, they get me on the train, I can go into the city centre, I can go all the way across the country from two platforms, and that鈥檚 going to be all taken away and I鈥檓 going to be isolated/excluded and it鈥檚 against my human rights. But they鈥檙e just going to exclude us and exclude me travelling like everybody else does, and it鈥檚 totally and utterly disgusting and it鈥檚 totally and utterly wrong.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And you鈥檝e been applying for a judicial review as well, as we said.

SARAH-听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What happens in terms of that, is that a waiting game?

SARAH-听听听听听听听 It is a waiting game. And then it鈥檚 been put forward. I鈥檝e been doing these judicial reviews so many times for different things. You wish you don鈥檛 have to, but you have to be that voice for people that can鈥檛 speak out or don鈥檛 know how to do it, and if you can鈥檛 get anything done, you have to do judicial review. The lawyers will put this forward and ask to have a judicial review, and then once that鈥檚 been put forward to the courts you then have to wait for them to come back to you before we can go any further. Then they鈥檒l get all the information together to get going to see whether you鈥檝e got a date to go to court and things like that.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 As we mentioned earlier, the Department for Transport said this is about enhancing the role of station workers, it鈥檚 not about cutting jobs. The Rail Delivery Group also told us this.

FEMALE-听听听听听 Train companies will continue to engage with accessibility and safety groups and take on-board their views during the consultation period. You will still be able to book assistance two hours in advance for your journey, either using the Passenger Assist app, or via a dedicated phoneline available 24/7, and you will always be able to access help and advice from a trained representative. The commitment to 20 minutes turn up and go will be maintained.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Thank you so much Sarah and Sassy. Thank you very much for coming on, it was great.

SASSY-听听听听听听听听 Thank you so much.

SARAH-听听听听听听听 Thank you ever so much.

SASSY-听听听听听听听听 Bye.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 If you鈥檝e got something to say about these plans, please do let Access All know. And the government鈥檚 consultation runs until 26th July, so look for it online and fill it in if you want to add your say.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Access All

MUSIC- 听听听听听听听 Sea shanty

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 I bet that is going to be in your head for the rest of the day now. It鈥檚 the pop version of Sea Shanty Wellerman, which was a mega viral hit for today鈥檚 guest in 2021. And the man behind the hit is Nathan Evans, and he is with us now, and Emma and I are very excited. Hello Nathan, welcome to Access All.

NATHAN-听听听听 Hello. How are we, are we all good?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 We鈥檝e been playing this multiple times in our house the last few days just over and over, and the kids have been dancing round the kitchen. It鈥檚 still got it.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 I love it. I love it. Nathan鈥檚 60 second long TikTok version has been in people鈥檚 heads from as far away as New Zealand and the US, and this young Scottish lad even spent eight weeks at number one in the Singles Charts in Germany. Did you like that, 鈥測oung Scottish lad鈥�?

NATHAN-听听听听 I like that. I especially like the 鈥測oung鈥� part.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 What has Nathan been doing since, and why is he popping up on a disability and mental health podcast I hear you ask? We鈥檒l get to all of that soon. But as much as it probably pains you to talk about for the twelfth millionth time probably, we have got to start with Wellerman, Nathan. Why a centuries鈥� old sea shanty?

NATHAN-听听听听 It started because someone left a TikTok comment underneath one of my videos. I had been doing requests and taking people鈥檚 songs and ideas. I鈥檇 put a Scottish folk song up, and someone commented under that saying can you sing this song, it鈥檚 a sea shanty.听 Added it to the list, thought nothing of it, came back a couple of weeks later sang that song, and then underneath that, which got like 1.5 million views, it was the most viewed video, underneath that video the amount of comments people were asking for so many different sea shanties, can you sing this, can you sing Wellerman, can you sing Drunken Sailor?听 Just so many people. I added Wellerman to the list of songs that I was going to be singing, and then December came and it was time for Wellerman so I just went away and listened to it, recorded it, uploaded it, and then life changed I guess!

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 You sing it so beautifully. And this was all on TikTok, wasn鈥檛 it?听 Because you鈥檙e a huge star on TikTok, aren鈥檛 you?

NATHAN-听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Says the old person here! I actually literally sounded 100 years old then, didn鈥檛 I!

NATHAN-听听听听 I think at the moment I鈥檝e got like 1.7 million followers on TikTok, so just a little bit.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Just a few. Just a few.

NATHAN-听听听听 [Laughs]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And how many views has Wellerman had on TikTok?

NATHAN-听听听听 I think if I鈥檓 right, it鈥檚 somewhere between 25 and 30 million.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 That is amazing! And from that it was kind of overnight fame, overnight success, which for a lot of people is hard to handle. What was that whole experience like from you, it was like just 鈥渂am鈥� wasn鈥檛 it?听 I remember seeing you on The One Show and you were everywhere.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Literally the whole studio can鈥檛 help but sing along.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 brilliant is what it is.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 Nathan, welcome. We are very pleased-

NATHAN-听听听听 It was good. It was extremely exciting, but it was quite stressful as well because I remember saying to Holly, I was like, 鈥淚 really want to make this work. Being a musician is like a dream come true.鈥澨� Coming from TikTok and the video that I came from and stuff, I was like, 鈥淚 don鈥檛 want it to be 15 seconds and then it鈥檚 finished,鈥� I said to Holly, 鈥淚 want to make this a career, and if I don鈥檛 make it a career then there鈥檚 no point in trying.鈥�

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Holly being your wife. Your wonderful wife.

NATHAN-听听听听 Yeah, Holly being my wife. She鈥檚 incredible. She keeps my feet on the ground and keeps me focused.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 For listeners that don鈥檛 know, what was your career before?听 You were in, what was it, steel?

NATHAN-听听听听 Steel, yeah. I was a steel erecter. I would put all the metalworks up for steel structures in buildings. And then I quit that, I think I was unemployed for maybe two months, and then I became a postman for two/three months, and then that鈥檚 when Wellerman came out.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 And I鈥檓 right in saying back then you were worried about money.

NATHAN-听听听听 Yeah, yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 It was more of a difficult time for you financially. And I guess now Wellerman and all the success following that has changed that situation. But I hear a lot of people say when they鈥檝e made it quite quickly they wake up every morning thinking, 鈥極h my goodness, what if it goes tomorrow?鈥� Do you ever think like that, or are you pretty content now?

NATHAN-听听听听 No, definitely that鈥檚 still a thought I have every single day. I鈥檓 just waiting for someone to show up at the door and be like, 鈥淕reat, I need to take this back, thank you very much.鈥澨� There鈥檚 always a constant like why me question just kind of floating about in the back of your head. It kind of makes me work a bit harder, I guess, to try and make sure that nothing does happen. Realistically no-one鈥檚 going to come in and just take everything away, it鈥檚 never going to just disappear, but it just kind of pushes you on and drives you on a bit.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 We get the pleasure of your company on Access All today, Nathan, because of your mental health. More specifically, you get panic attacks, don鈥檛 you, and anxiety. When did all of that start having an impact on your life?

NATHAN-听听听听 I love performing. Performing is where I like... that is not a job for me, that is just like absolute bliss. When I鈥檓 on stage I鈥檓 not too bad, but the anxiety is more worse before things, like if I鈥檓 doing something new or meeting new people or stuff like that then sometimes it can spike. It鈥檚 as if you fill yourself up with false starts and false things and whatever it might be that you鈥檙e doing, you big it up a lot bigger than what it actually is, and then you get there and it鈥檚 never as bad as what you imagine it to be.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 How does your anxiety and your panic attacks present itself and how does it impact your life?

NATHAN-听听听听 It鈥檚 as if I get extremely nervous, so I get really shaky, my breath starts getting very, very short, my hands get all sweaty, I get really warm. It鈥檚 as if my thoughts are in each corner in my brain, and it鈥檚 as if it鈥檚 like hard to reach the corners, if that makes any sense. It鈥檚 as if everything鈥檚 just scrambled, my head鈥檚 a mess and I can鈥檛 really think straight.

It鈥檚 helped me massively having Holly there and being able to speak to her, because up until about maybe a year or two ago I wouldn鈥檛 speak about feelings or about how I felt, I would just kind of work through it and hope for the best and see what happened. But now if I feel like I鈥檓 having a bad day or anything, then I speak to Holly, I let her know, and then even just that getting it off your chest it鈥檚 so good.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And what changed to mean that you started to do that?

NATHAN-听听听听 I think it was just I needed something, anything that would help just a little bit. Since then I鈥檝e been to the doctors and stuff and I鈥檝e spoken, I鈥檝e got medication and whatever else. I would be upset if I found out one of my close friends or my family were going through the same thing and they hadn鈥檛 said anything.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 I think it鈥檚 probably fair to say that it鈥檚 getting less taboo now for fellas to talk about their mental health. Do you feel more confident about talking about your own mental health?听 Will you carry on doing that?

NATHAN-听听听听 Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Especially since I鈥檝e had Hunter and stuff and like-

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Hunter being your young boy?

NATHAN-听听听听 Yeah. I鈥檝e got nieces, I鈥檝e got nephews. I love my family, I love my friends, and to think that one of them if they were going through the same thing and they weren鈥檛 speaking, or they felt like they couldn鈥檛 speak. It鈥檚 not nice, and going through it myself I know how it feels, it鈥檚 horrible. Me speaking out hopefully encourages other people, even the younger generation, to show them that it鈥檚 fine, you can speak. It doesn鈥檛 make you any less of the man that you鈥檙e going to become, it doesn鈥檛 make you any les of a person, nobody thinks any differently of you. Hopefully me speaking out and explaining my experiences and stuff like that, if that helps one other person then I鈥檝e done something right.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, yeah.

NATHAN-听听听听 Particularly Holly has been absolutely incredible.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 She鈥檚 great, that Holly.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah, keep her!

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Where are you now, because it looks like you鈥檝e got a studio in the background there?

NATHAN-听听听听 This is my home studio. Cooking up some new tracks and stuff.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Because you are a phenomenal musician, you write your own stuff, don鈥檛 you, you write your own music.

NATHAN-听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 You play piano?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Guitar.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 You play guitar.

NATHAN-听听听听 Yeah.听 Play piano, play guitar, yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 You have this beautiful voice.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I mean I hate when anybody asks me this, it鈥檚 like asking a comedian to tell a joke, but if you wanted to sing us a few little bars there, Nathan, we wouldn鈥檛 be upset.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Oh no, we wouldn鈥檛.

NATHAN-听听听听 Okay. It鈥檚 got to be Wellerman, right?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Okay.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Oh, okay.

NATHAN-听听听听 I need to grab a guitar.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 [Squeeks in excitement]

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 [Squeeks in excitement] Okay, ready?

NATHAN-听听听听 [Sings a few lines from Wellerman]

EMMA听听听听听听听听听 [Claps]

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 What a voice. I tell you what, that voice of yours is just mince.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Beautiful.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Beautiful. Your tone, it just-

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 What鈥檚 your new music like then, give us a feel?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Pop.

NATHAN-听听听听 Yeah, it鈥檚 kind of like singer/songwriter/pop/folk, kinda. [Clip of a few lines of new song] It鈥檚 a little bit of a change, but hopefully a welcome change.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Honestly Nathan, you鈥檙e the only reason why I want to join TikTok.

NATHAN-听听听听 Oh, I love that. That鈥檚 done it for me.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 been an absolute pleasure, thank you so much.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 been so nice. We really have been a bit giddy.

NATHAN-听听听听 Thank you very much. And thank you guys for having me so much, it鈥檚 been a pleasure, so thank you.

MUSIC听听听听听听听听听 Access All with Nikki Fox

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 We haven鈥檛 read out many messages lately, have we, Ems?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 No, we have not, and we do love your messages so shall we?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Rory says, I remember that Nikki had the opportunity to 鈥渘erd out鈥� he says, with one of your guests about mobility scooters. That was Charleston that came on to talk about homelessness, but he came into the studio in a huffer of a scooter, didn鈥檛 he?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Apparently. You went on about it for long enough.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 It was amazing!

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 What was it about? There was buttons that you were talking about. You were talking about speed. You were talking about the colour. You were talking about the metal. What did Rory say?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Anyway, Rory said and you probably had some FOMO.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Fear of missing out.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. Here鈥檚 your chance to nerd out about white canes. I have an Ambutech white cane.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Oh yes, know those.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Hello. Do you know it?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yes.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 One of those with the hook that you can put in place to stop the string falling into the white cane. What? Okay, I鈥檓 lost.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Okay. Do you want to stop there and I鈥檒l explain that bit and then you can go on?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah. Go on.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 You know the way I told you canes are foldy?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yes, you did.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 The reason why they can fold even though they鈥檙e like graphite or metal or whatever, and the reason why they spring out so strong, is that the four metal pieces fit into each other when they pop out.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 But when folded, we use an elastic that鈥檚 inside the cane, and it goes right from the top of the cane and right to the end where the tip goes in.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 The tip.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yes, the tip.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 The tip of the cane.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well I鈥檒l tell you what, it鈥檚 strong elastic, right, and if like what happened to me while waiting on the tarmac to get on a flight, my son decided to start playing with my cane tip, took it off, the elastic flew up into the cane, all the pieces started falling off, and it was like you鈥檙e trying to get your teeth in, you鈥檙e trying to get your nails in. I had to get some sort of... what did I get out?听 I got something out of my bag that I could shimmy-

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 The thing is, I know what you mean about the cane, it鈥檚 like a foldy out.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Making it from something that鈥檚 sort of folded to an actual cane. Because my nan had a walking stick that did the same kind of thing.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Oh, she had elastic in there I can tell you that now.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 She had elastic in there, she sure did, my nan.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 And my goodness, she whipped it out quickly.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Did she?听 Ooof.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 a good noise. Hang on. Hang on. [Finds white cane]

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Oh no, here she goes.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Is this a bit nerdy, yeah?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 No, it鈥檚 not.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Are you ready?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檒l tell you what, if you do that, I鈥檒l do the honker on my scooter.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Okay. One, two, three.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Awwh, that鈥檚 exactly what my nan鈥檚 cane... Cane? She wasn鈥檛 blind. That鈥檚 what her crutches did, her walking stick did.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 And that鈥檚 the sound of it falling off.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 I can see you there on the camera. That鈥檚 the elastic, is it?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yes. And if you鈥檙e in a waiting room or sitting on a bench somewhere and someone else makes that noise, you鈥檙e like, 鈥楤lind person in the building! There鈥檚 another blind person!鈥�

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 So exciting.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 like when I was younger when we used to have talking watches, I remember being on the bus with someone for an hour sitting beside them and then they pressed their talking watch, I was like, 鈥極h my goodness, I鈥檝e been sitting beside another blind person for an hour and I never even said anything to them.鈥� And it ended up being someone I know, of course, because blind people all know each other.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 [Snorts/laughs] You make me laugh.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Did Rory say anything else?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 When I鈥檝e sat next to someone in a scooter I don鈥檛 start a conversation.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Why?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Unless they want to talk.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 No, I don鈥檛 always start a conversation.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 You know I鈥檓 like, 鈥淗ello鈥�, it鈥檚 all smiley, you know me, I smile all the time. Well you don鈥檛 see me but you know.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I can hear you. I can hear the smile in your voice, yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, you can hear it in my voice. Yeah, I鈥檓 smiling through my gnashers all the time.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 But I don鈥檛 necessarily start, 鈥淥h hello. Hello, how鈥檚 your...?听 Are you on tortoise or are you on hare?听 What does you horn sound like?鈥�

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 [Laughs] Did Rory say anything else?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, we need to get back to Rory. I鈥檓 sorry Rory, this is the longest email feedback read we鈥檝e ever done, but we鈥檙e enjoying it. Right, so I鈥檓 slightly lost here but Rory says I prefer to use my cane by the constant contact method.听 Do you know that?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 When your left foot goes out, your cane should be in front of your right leg, and when your right foot goes out, your cane should be in front of your left leg, so that your foot is checking what鈥檚 in front of you and your cane is checking what鈥檚 in front of you the same time from both sides. There are many debates about whether you should swish it left and right, or whether you should tap it. If you tap it, you sometimes pick up more of the echo location signs because it鈥檚 making a tapping noise and it鈥檚 tapping off the walls. But if you roll it, you鈥檙e probably going to cover more ground.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 That to me is like tapping your head and patting your stomach or whatever it is you have to do.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Tapping your head and rubbing your tummy.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Your coordination must be unreal.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It鈥檚 kind of like riding a bike, once you can do it, you can do it and you don鈥檛 think about it. If you start thinking about it you鈥檒l be wrong leg, wrong side, all everything, and then you鈥檇 fall down a flight of stairs and then that would be it really. Thank you Rory for giving me an opportunity to nerd out about canes and being blind.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yes! Any scooter users want to give me another opportunity, you know, feel free. Email us accessall@bbc.co.uk听 But now we鈥檙e talking about a story that comes up all the time. We鈥檙e actually talking about the airport experience. The Civil Aviation Authority or the CAA, they鈥檝e been rating the UK鈥檚 26 biggest airports on the quality of their special assistance service for disabled people since 2014 they鈥檝e been doing it. It鈥檚 their attempt to help airports improve in this area. Their 2022-23 report is out today. What does it say, Emma Tracey?听 Come on.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well, it focuses mostly on the timeliness of assistance, so how quickly they meet you off the plane, how quickly they meet you when you enter the airport, and what happens in-between. Okay?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Hmmm, hmm.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 18 airports out of the 26 are now rated good or very good, and that includes Aberdeen and London City Airport. London Luton was the only airport to go from poor to very good.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Hmmm. I鈥檝e put this to them before whether or not they have any teeth, the CAA, to make change really, and I know a lot of other disabled people have said the same thing. But what they would say and what they鈥檝e said to me is that nobody, no airport wants to be ranked worst airport in the UK.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah. It鈥檚 why they have rating systems on Uber and all those things, nobody wants a two star.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 They don鈥檛 want the bad press.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 No.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 But for the moment they do believe that this is the best way of improving the standard. So what about those at the lower end then, Emma Tracey?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Well, London Heathrow, the biggest of all of the airports, was the worst performing.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Right.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It was the only one to be rated poor for the whole year. The CAA said it did make some improvements, but not enough to boost its rating.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 As part of the CAA鈥檚 work, it鈥檚 asked Ann Frye last year, Ann is the government鈥檚 Disability and Access Ambassador for airports, to review the current methods and consult with disabled people to improve them. Ann diligently presented her thoughts last summer, but the CAA has said due to a challenging summer it鈥檚 not been able to take on any of her advice yet.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 sure they will take it on.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Oh I鈥檓 sure, yeah. I鈥檓 sure.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 sure they will. But well done, Ann.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Blimey. I know that they are looking at doing a similar thing for airlines at some point.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 A similar rating system?

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 A similar rating system, thank you Emma Tracey. We鈥檙e going to keep an eye on that, we speak to the team at the CAA very regularly. Do you agree with the CAA鈥檚 ratings? Could you email us and let us know? Our email address is accessall@bbc.co.uk

MUSIC听听听听听听听听听 Theme music

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 That鈥檚 the end of the show, Emma.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 It is.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 We have got to mention though before we go Edinburgh, the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. We鈥檙e going to be there, aren鈥檛 we?

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 We are. We鈥檙e going to be in Dynamic Earth doing a live version of our episode in front of a studio audience. That鈥檚 you by the way, you are the studio audience. Go get your tickets on the 麻豆社 Show and Tours鈥� website where you can grab them until 23rd July.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 They are free. And I am pleased to say that people have actually wanted to come and see us because quite a lot of the tickets have gone, which is nice. But there are a few left. You鈥檝e got until this Sunday the 23rd.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Get in quick, go-go-go.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Go-go-go.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Yeah.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 I鈥檓 nervous.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Listen, we鈥檒l be back next week, yes we will. But subscribe, press that little subscribe button so that you don鈥檛 miss it.

NIKKI-听听听听听听听听听 Yeah, I tell everyone to do that. But until then everyone, goodbye.

EMMA-听听听听听听听听 Goodbye.

MUSIC-听听听听听听听听 Theme music

[Trailer for Americast]

PRESENTER- So Sarah, we鈥檝e been asked to put together a trail for Americast. What do you think we should put in?

PRESENTER- Is it too obvious to just say that we鈥檒l be covering all the biggest stories that are coming out of America?

PRESENTER- There is a phrase that鈥檚 been bouncing around since the Trump Presidency, which is 鈥淟OL nothing matters鈥�. Things that would matter don鈥檛 seem to matter anymore.

PRESENTER- I think that works. But it鈥檚 not just that, is it, we need to talk as well about the undercover voters鈥� investigation, what鈥檚 happening online, what everyone鈥檚 getting in their social media feeds.

PRESENTER- What they allow us to see is what someone who has a specific set of views or is from a specific demographic or a specific place, might be seeing on their feeds.

PRESENTER- And of course we鈥檝e also got to mention all the amazing guests and experts that we have on the show helping us understand the stories.

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 This is a great talking point for him in the call of public opinion, but it is not going to go very far in a court of law.

PRESENTER- And Americast of course isn鈥檛 just about politics and news, is it?听 Can we get something in about the more cultural, the social stuff too?

CLIP-听听听听听听听听听听听听 It kind of is in keeping with the conversations that we鈥檙e having in this country about race and colonialism and the legacy of those things.

PRESENTER- Yeah, as long as you include that I think that about covers what we do.

PRESENTER- And then all I need to say at the end is, Americast is a podcast from 麻豆社 News and you can find it on 麻豆社 Sounds.

PRESENTER- Yeah, well you have just said that.