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IN TOUCH 鈥� Changes to PIP and Whale watching

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TX:听 06.02.2018听 2040-2100

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PRESENTER:听 听听听听听听听 PETER WHITE

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PRODUCER:听 听听听听听听听听听 CHERYL GABRIEL

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White

Good evening.听 Tonight, more controversy surrounding PIPs or Personal Independence Payments.听 We鈥檒l be discovering what effect a recent court decision could have for some visually-impaired benefit claimants.听 And watching whales may not be a complete waste of time, even though you can鈥檛 see them.

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Clip

I鈥檝e always thought there are some experiences like mime, the Northern Lights and keeping tropical fish, that are largely wasted on someone who鈥檚 totally blind.听 I remember a good friend once teasing that for my next birthday he鈥檇 get me a ship in a bottle.听 And right now I鈥檓 afraid that whale watching will turn out equally meaningless.

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White

So, not the rugby team but the mammals then 鈥� more from Mike Lambert later in the programme.

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But first, more than 200,000 people could be in line to receive more disability benefit after the government announced it was going to review around 1.6 million cases to check eligibility for PIPs.听 That鈥檚 the benefit designed to compensate disabled people for the extra living costs of their disability.听 This follows a judgement that the way in which PIPs has been assessed up until now discriminates against people with mental health problems.听 But despite this apparently good news for a section of the disability community Richard Kramer, Chief executive of SENSE, which represents people with complex disabilities, including those who are both deaf and blind, feels that some visually-impaired claimants might not benefit from this review.听 It鈥檚 caused a good deal of misunderstanding and confusion and yesterday Richard Kramer told me why.

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Kramer

People have said great, that means my whole claim is going to be reviewed, I鈥檓 going to have a reassessment and we鈥檙e saying 鈥� no, it only applies to that particular descriptor in relation to planning and going on journeys.听 And the government have said there鈥檒l be no face to face assessments, they will do a reassessment but we don鈥檛 know when or how or fully what resources have been allocated and they鈥檒l only relate to that particular aspect in terms of planning and following journeys.

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White

Now of course the business of following journeys and planning journeys is something which is relevant to visually-impaired people and there are quite a lot of your clients who are themselves visually-impaired.听 What鈥檚 the absolute direct relevance to visually-impaired people of all this?

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Kramer

Yeah, I mean it will be directly relevant.听 I mean first and foremost, it鈥檚 always important to take a more holistic view, so it鈥檚 not just about the practical support that you may need but to recognise that actually you may have support around your mental wellbeing.听 But I suppose if you鈥檙e someone with a sensor impairment and say you can鈥檛 follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without support, whether that鈥檚 from a person or from a dog or support or aid you currently would receive 10 points.听 Now if you say actually I have a mental health problem and that impacts on my ability to go out and I have a sensory impairment you could receive an enhanced rate, so it could make the difference between the standard rate or enhanced rate of PIP, in the main the difference of 拢36 a week, which is quite a significant sum for an individual.听 But it is on a case by case basis.

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White

And could that mean therefore that people who find getting around stressful, as indeed quite a lot of visually-impaired people do, that that could be interpreted as an indication of stress and the stress may be caused by the blindness?

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Kramer

Yes, it won鈥檛 be sufficient to say I have a sensory impairment and I also am anxious or worried.听 You need to show that anxiety or worry impacts on your ability to go out.听 It really is quite defined within that descriptor.听 The wider issue is, is that actually how are assessors going to re-evaluate.听 If they haven鈥檛 completed a very good assessment or they haven鈥檛 got very good evidence on your case file it may make it difficult for an assessor to conclude well actually we should have upped someone鈥檚 entitlement to PIP.听 The system is only as good as how it is applied and we know there are wider concerns about assessors鈥� knowledge and the accuracy of reports.

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White

Can you be a bit more specific 鈥� I mean what are you concerns about the way the assessments are done and who actually does them?

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Kramer

We鈥檝e had news of more money being given to providers to carry out assessments at a time when there are so many appeals against the assessments鈥� decisions, I think we鈥檝e reached 68% success rate in people taking appeals.听 And that鈥檚 because of the quality of assessments and because of the assessors鈥� lack of specialist knowledge.听 It鈥檚 not just about having the right facts but it鈥檚 also about interpreting those facts and understanding how someone鈥檚 sensory impairment can really impact on their daily life.

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White

So specifically, which people with visual impairments might this directly affect and who maybe should be making indications 鈥� waves 鈥� noises 鈥� that they need to be re-assessed?

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Kramer

Well first of all, they should wait for the DWP to come to them.听 I wouldn鈥檛 suggest today that people with sensory impairments should be phoning up the DWP.听 What should happen is the DWP should review their case notes, they should review the awards given and hopefully adjust those awards.听 But that will only happen is they wrote it up or reflected that conversation in their report.听 And because there was an inbuilt bias against those who are talking about mental health problems we can鈥檛 be guaranteed that the report actually reflected that conversation at that time.听 And we鈥檝e had too many examples where reports don鈥檛 reflect conversations where 鈥� and it鈥檚 very sad that we still have this 鈥� this scenario where people have said well you can move around unaided in your house, so you can clearly go outside, just because somebody can get around their living room without the support of their guide dog doesn鈥檛 mean that they don鈥檛 need support outside the home.听 And those kind of things do make a difference and that鈥檚 why people are still very anxious about the assessment process, regardless of these changes.

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White

One final point.听 The government has always made it clear that it was concerned about the cost of the benefits鈥� bill, do you think we鈥檙e seeing something of a change of heart in the decision not to appeal against this decision, despite there still being tight fiscal control?

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Kramer

I would like to hope so, on so many fronts, it鈥檚 not just about disability benefits.听 On social care, wider issues, the focus is on older people.听 There鈥檚 little attention on disabled benefits and people鈥檚 rights.听 I mean the government did change their heart around this issue and that鈥檚 a good thing.听 We also have to remember that there was a high court judgement that found the changes brought in by the government to be unlawful.听 So, yes, this may be a more positive indication of a new dialogue with new disabled people but I think let鈥檚 just see what the future brings.

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White

Richard Kramer of SENSE.

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In their statement to us the Department for Work and Pensions quoted Sarah Newton, who鈥檚 Minister for Disabled People, as saying that following this judgement they鈥檒l be identifying claimants who may be eligible for more support under PIP.听 She says, there鈥檚 no need for claimants to do anything and no one will require a reassessment or be asked to attend a meeting.听 Instead they will write to those who are entitled to more benefits.听

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But there was no comment on Richard Kramer鈥檚 reservations about how the original claims were assessed.

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Now if you鈥檙e blind it鈥檚 not always easy to judge how much you鈥檙e going to get from a day out.听 How visual will it be?听 Will things be described to you or will you just sit there like a lemon while everyone else oohs and ahhs?听 Mike Lambert describes such a day which took a surprising turn.

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Lambert

Before our boat can depart the captain鈥檚 running through a few health and safety details.听 Forecast says it鈥檚 going to be pretty rough out there today, he warns over the Tannoy, we鈥檇 recommend seasickness medication.听 And remember folks, if you do start feeling sick it鈥檚 always calmer at the back.听 We鈥檙e okay.听 My wife, my daughter and I had our tablets at breakfast.听 And right now, on my urging, we鈥檙e standing at the absolute bow of the boat because I鈥檓 determined to have a front row seat at this show, even if it proves totally pointless.

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Two weeks ago, when I insisted on booking this trip, the idea of getting up close to a Pacific grey whale had seemed appealing.听 But now, leaning against the cold steel railing, I worry I鈥檓 leading my family on a fools鈥� errand.听 I鈥檝e always thought there are some experiences, like mime, the Northern Lights and keeping tropical fish, that are largely wasted on someone who鈥檚 totally blind.

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I remember a good friend once teasing that for my next birthday he鈥檇 get me a ship in a bottle.听 And right now I鈥檓 afraid that whale watching will turn out equally meaningless.

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Exiting the harbour, the captain points out some colourful jelly fish and a group of California sea lions sheltering under a pier.听 My hearing鈥檚 pretty poor but with an effort I can just make out their honking above the racket of the wind and the boat鈥檚 engine.听 Half an hour later I鈥檓 starting to understand what鈥檚 meant by pretty rough, when the captain announces he鈥檚 just spotted the heart shaped plumes of vapour that are a sure sign of grey whales.听 Then there鈥檚 a flurry of excitement to my right.听 Far off at two o鈥檆lock my wife can just see the rounded backs of three whales, dark grey with white blotches, sparkling in the sunlight.听 There鈥檚 another ripple of excitement and I ask what鈥檚 that?听 My daughter explains that one of the three just flipped its enormous tail in the air before taking a dive.听

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Eventually we leave the three greys and head out into deeper water.听 Now, the captain鈥檚 interested in a patch of sea where there鈥檚 a lot of bird activity.听 He guesses they鈥檙e probably feeding on a shoal of krill and where there鈥檚 krill there could be humpback whales.听 The captain鈥檚 seen something.听 The boat鈥檚 turning.听 The engine鈥檚 flat out.听 We鈥檙e in pursuit.听 We鈥檙e taking a tremendous hammering, lurching side to side, as well as up and down.听 Spray鈥檚 coming over the rail and something 鈥� I hadn鈥檛 noticed till now 鈥� a horrible thudding sound every time the hull plunges back into the waves.听 I worry something鈥檚 wrong but next to me a little girl, maybe three or four, is screaming with delight and I try to control my fear.

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And then, something extraordinary, an eruption of joy that starts with the gasps of a few observant individuals, then has everyone hooping and whooping hysterically.听 What鈥檚 happening, I ask my wife.听 But she鈥檚 too breathless with excitement to speak.听 Over the Tannoy the captain explains a 45鈥� humpback just breached 鈥� jumping clean out of the water, twisting in mid air and crashing back into the foam.听 鈥淒id you hear it Dad?鈥� my daughter asks.听 No, I admit.听 Although there is another sound still echoing in my mind 鈥� that blossoming of joy and unaffected astonishment I鈥檒l never forget.听 A moment later the captain cuts the engine.听 One of the humpbacks has just swum under the boat and surfaced a few yards ahead of us, where it鈥檚 snorting out its spent breath.听 鈥淐an you hear that?鈥� my wife asks.听 Yes.听 And then I hear it again and a third time, even closer, almost under my feet.听 鈥淭here she blows,鈥� someone shouts, as a veil of warm droplets descends over my face.听 I can smell and actually taste the salty sea weedy breath that seconds before had been in the creature鈥檚 lungs.听

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A humpback whale just sneezed in my face and you don鈥檛 get better or more intimate than that.

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White

Mike Lambert.听 Almost taking us there.

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Now a new approach to one of our most popular occasional series 鈥� Blindness for Beginners.听 Now it鈥檚 what it says on the tin, it鈥檚 aimed at people new to blindness or partial sight answering the questions that we often forget to ask on this programme because we perhaps think it鈥檚 too obvious.听 But for a programme coming up in about a month鈥檚 time we鈥檇 like you to put those questions to visually-impaired couple Mike and Chris McMillan.听 Maybe Mike and Chris, you鈥檇 just like to introduce yourselves to the audience a little bit.

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Chris McMillan

I鈥檓 Chris and we鈥檝e been married 41 years but we鈥檝e known each other for about 44 years and I鈥檓 partially sighted.

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Mike McMillan

I鈥檓 Mike and I鈥檝e been retired about five years.听 I have some sight.听 And I used to work as a technician.听 And Chris has been very good to put up with me all that time.

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White

Right.听 So just give us an idea, the two of you, of the kind of areas that you would be happy to answer questions on and perhaps which you understand the things that cause people difficulty.

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Chris McMillan

Well we鈥檇 definitely go with life in the kitchen and bringing up a family.

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Mike McMillan

Yes, I think that鈥檚 a fair one.听 I would like to add if anyone wants a little bit of information about starting work, job interview, whatever, I鈥檓 fairly confident from my first job to my last that I got away with it fairly well.

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Chris McMillan

We鈥檝e had experience of losing sight and regaining it with Mike, whereas mine鈥檚 been fairly static.听 So, we can appreciate the suddenness and we鈥檝e adapted, I think, almost since we were able to, since technology and gizmos appeared.

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White

I mean one of the things we used to talk about a lot on the programme, perhaps haven鈥檛 quite so much recently, maybe because of technology, is the whole issue of lighting and how you make decisions about how to light your house.

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Chris McMillan

Yes, that鈥檚 one we definitely know a lot about.

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Mike McMillan

Yes, being a miserly sort I鈥檝e looked for efficient lighting as well, so I鈥檝e tried quite a few different things over the years and we鈥檙e fairly pleased with what we use now.

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White

One of the things that maybe will help concentrate people鈥檚 minds is that question 鈥� what would I really have liked to know in advance when I was losing my sight.听 Have you two got views on that 鈥� what you鈥檝e had to find out the hard way?

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Chris McMillan

I suppose much of it is the modern designs make it harder.听 So, we鈥檝e been frustrated more with what came 鈥� because what we had when we first started out together was easy to see.听 Things like the hi-fi, the white goods, the cookers 鈥� all those sorts of things used to be really easy to use but now they鈥檙e nearly always black or small print and things but you didn鈥檛 know that when 鈥� in the 1970s because everything was just so easy.听 So, I think we鈥檝e been taken by surprise as the world has moved on that what we didn鈥檛 know at the beginning we didn鈥檛 know we didn鈥檛 know.

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White

And just one other very quick thing.听 I mean technology there鈥檚 so much about it now, Mike are you happy to take on questions about almost any aspect of technology for visually-impaired people?

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Mike McMillan

Oh yes, I think so.听 I mean if we don鈥檛 know we鈥檒l be honest and we鈥檒l say we don鈥檛 know but quite happy to try.

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White

Right, well if you say you don鈥檛 know we won鈥檛 put it on.听 Mike and Chris McMillan, thanks very much, we鈥檒l look forward to the questions flooding in.

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You can phone your questions for Chris and Mike to our actionline for 24 hours after tonight鈥檚 programme on 0800 044 044.听 You can email intouch@bbc.co.uk or you can click onto contact us on our website.

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Finally today, some sad news.听

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Music

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The amazingly versatile musician Reg Webb died last week, he was 70.听 Reg was blind, he spent 50 years in the music business playing just about every kind of music you can imagine.听 He worked with artists like Linda Lewis, Nick Kershaw and Susie Quatro.听 He was a member of several bands and a frequent solo performer as well.听 Pianists, saxophonists, guitarists 鈥� if you handed Reg Webb a bucket and spade he鈥檇 have knocked a tune out of it.

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Music

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Well, I have to declare an interest here 鈥� Reg was a close schoolfriend of mine and the music brains behind the only pop group anyone would allow me to join.听 I鈥檇 like to end today by playing something of his which illustrates many of his skills 鈥� as a pianist, as a composer and a vocalist.听 Reg, thanks for all the music.

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Music

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