Garden inspirationÌý permalink
Pond Design Ideas Please
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Hi all.
We would like to dig a new and of course larger pond for our garden in the spring. Our thought is to use pond liner and have koi and some goldfish in a 3000+ gallon water feature.
The best site is in the middle of the yard where it is away from Toxic Neighbours and the occasional falling tree limb from the massive weeping willows on either side of the property.
OK... The problem? The middle of the yard is also the low point of the yard. All the water stand there after a heavy rain or in the spring with the snow melt. If we just dig the site I fear the liner may rise as the ground water levels change. There is also the risk of chemical run-off / contamination from the yards of the neighbours.
Would it be better to add soil and make an area of varied elevations for the water feature? If we do that then previously non flooded areas of the garden may become submerged and I fear the plants established there may suffer.
Should we spend a great deal of extra money (that we don't have) and have a drainage system put in so other areas don't flood?
Should be purchase a round bowl and place a fish in it and call it a good days work?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank.
Kindest regards.
C3D -
Message 2
Posted by Metermaid (U2389592) on Sunday, 20th November 2005
How about a raised pond?
-
Message 3
Posted by William (U2169036) on Sunday, 20th November 2005
Hi C3D
OK... The problem? The middle of the yard is also the low point of the yard. All the water stand there after a heavy rain or in the spring with the snow melt. If we just dig the site I fear the liner may rise as the ground water levels change. There is also the risk of chemical run-off / contamination from the yards of the neighbours.
Ìý
First the drainage issue. If you have acces to an even lower point than the centre of the yard - for drainage. You could build a regular pond with a canal-like rim around it. This canal like rim would take the water from the yard (chemical neighbours) and if you can dig in a drain from that to a lower point or sewer "Bob's your Uncle"
You could plant marginals and swamp plants to obscure this rim around your pond. I suppose you iunderstand the importance of the waterlevel in this rim being lower than the waterlevel in your pond. With this you will have a very safe protectuion agains contamination of your pondwater. (As long as you keep that water level higher than the level in the rim.
Regarding the lifting bit. I suppose if you can make sure the waterlevel in the pond stays higher than the groundwaterlevel you stand very little chance of it turning into a boat....
Hope this helps you a bit further...
-
Message 4
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Sunday, 20th November 2005
Hi Rita.
Thanks for your reply. I think I do need a somewhat raised pond but not totally above ground level as I fear the water will freeze too deeply and the fish right along with it.
---------------------------------------
Hi William.
I don't know about the drainage situation as it is the lowest point of the garden and water won't travel up hill. It would probably be an ideal place for a pond without a liner if there was no fear of run-off from other properties.
I like your idea of having a bit of a moat around the new pond with the bog and marginals planted there! I like that a lot! The area where the wildlife garden is situated is a natural boggy area.
That topic actually was how Ian and I started our conversation about 2 years ago. I asked how to deal with the muddy area so the dogs would not track slime and dirt into the house and Ian talked me through the placing of sleepers and so on.
I have many marginals and think that will make a very nice project and addition to the garden.
I had read in other pond forums that people have problems with their liner being raised after a heavy rain. We have never had that problem with our pond. So you think I don't need to worry about it then? Just stay the course, LOL, and do what we did with the wildlife pond but have a boggy area surrounding it. Hmmmm. That makes it sound like an even more natural look too. Yes. I like your idea.
Thank you very much, William!
Kindest regards.
C3D -
Message 5
Posted by Juliet (U2196646) on Sunday, 20th November 2005
Hi C3D - I don't know anything about ponds, I'm afraid, sorry
- William's ideas sound good, but if the drainage bit won't work because there's nowhere lower for the water to drain, you could try copying your question to the Allotments for All website - it has a section on ponds here:
and a lot of helpful people, so you might get some different ideas. Good luck! -
Message 6
Posted by Metermaid (U2389592) on Sunday, 20th November 2005
I have a semi-raised pond, which was completed May last year
I am a member of a really great web-site, which has a pond section. The guys on Fish Crazy have been great helping me get my pond established.
There are quite a few threads in the Pond and Water Garden Section, with photos, started by people building their own ponds.
-
Message 7
Posted by William (U2169036) on Monday, 21st November 2005
Hi C3D, if you really want to go over the top .... make a raised pond in the shape of a castle... The moat would fit snugly in that design. Add a few canons on the towers and start dealing with toxic tracy nextdoor ....
-
Message 8
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Monday, 21st November 2005
Hi Juliet.
Thank you letting me know about the allotments site! That may be very helpful!
Kindest regards.
C3D -
Message 9
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Monday, 21st November 2005
Hi Rita.
Thank you for the link to the pond site! I'll need to check that out. LOL! I am in the USA and belong to the Â鶹Éç gardening message boards and a UK birding site, a UK dog site and a UK cat site. Might as well move my pond here too, ehh?
Thanks again!
C3D -
Message 10
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Monday, 21st November 2005
William, William, William....
LOL!! I like your ideas! Do you have a source for leaches that could inhabit the moat?
Since you brought her up I'll tell you that we were outside yesterday to pick up branches that had fallen from the weeping willow trees and saw a number of branches in the veggie garden. The branches were all in the same direction and were ~~lovingly~~ placed in the middle of the garden.
The gate was not closed so someone decided to come through our gate and deposit a bundle of branches in our garden. Coincidentally... the Toxic neighbour's yard was branch free. Now isn't THAT just amazing?
Sooooo we placed a lock on the gate and finished cleaning the yard. We seriously believe the Toxic one may have dementia or Alzheimer's Disease so we just try to ignore her and rebuild the Berlin Wall on the west side of our property to keep her OUT!
Thanks for a great laugh.
C3D -
Message 11
Posted by William (U2169036) on Monday, 21st November 2005
Hi C3D
If she really has dementia or Alzheimer's Disease it's a sad thing indead, but still a difficult to handle practical pain in the neck. And rather unpredictable too....
Sad thing the Berlin wall can't be made out of living green materials (given her poison cabinet) but If you've got the space, the materials - and the need for disposal of branches and are interested in wild life .... you could erect two parallel rows of post (1-2 ft apart up to 6-7 ft high, and fill the gap between these rows with stems and twigs. Quite benifical for wildlife. Over here (Netherlands) this is sometimes done to dump unwanted willow twigs and branches after coppicing or pollaring - creating a "woodwall". It has a green feel and birds and small mammals love it ... but she won't be able to kill it with poison ... Not sure if she has a knack for matches though ... -
Message 12
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Monday, 21st November 2005
Hi William.
We suspect she has some sort of dementia. She can't really be that much of an uncaring person could she? When I mentioned to her a few years ago the she killed my Grandmother's rose bush she literally just shrugged her shoulders as she walked away.
After that toxic assault we attached willow screening to the chain link fence. It spans almost half the length of the fence that is near her side. The screen extends three feet above the top of the chain link. We planted clematis (the fall blooming variety ... sorry the name escapes me now) and there are wren houses attached here and there too.
There are a variety of TALL grasses like Zebra Grass and a clumping bamboo also. We call it the Berlin Wall but it is as green as we could manage and protective too. Should she get toxic again and spray the plants on our side again, I will not cry as much if the grasses die as I did when the other plants were killed.
Hmmm. We have unknowingly built a "woodwall" just yesterday! We raked up the fallen branches from the weeping willow and did what you had described near the compost pile. Must be careful when taking material from the compost pile. I disturbed a nest of baby moles once and was thoroughly scolded by the Mother as she collected her children and took them to safety one at a time.
Have a fantastic evening, William.
C3D -
Message 13
Posted by indeedee (U2385815) on Saturday, 26th November 2005
Hello, it's me ! - just happened to notice your thread, so a couple of thoughts - when you say that any water from rain, snow melt, etc, always lies at the lowest point, in the middle of the garden, is that because it remains at the local water table level, or because the soil there in not porous so will not drain ? - if the soil holds the water, then you possibly have the basis of a pond without need for a liner - you might still have to excavate to achieve the depth you require (checking that the soil type doesn't change), but you could then use the spoil to build-up the sides, provide an overflow for any surplus, and still use William's idea of the pollution moat.
Just a thought, but maybe I'm on the wrong track ?
Talk to you soon, IDD. -
Message 14
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Saturday, 26th November 2005
Hi Ian !
".... any water from rain, snow melt, etc, always lies at the lowest point, in the middle of the garden, is that because it remains at the local water table level, or because the soil there in not porous so will not drain ?...."
The answer would be: YES! It seems like the middle of our yard is the low point of the area. Even the water from the neighbour's yards runs off into ours. The soil is primarily clay and very poorly draining plus the ground water table is high.
Several years ago we were digging an area in which to place a light fixture. Less than a meter down was standing water. The farther down one digs the more compact the clay becomes. Makes me feel like throwing some pots with our own "home grown" clay.
I do seriously hesitate to have a more natural liner-less water feature. Although I am sure the pond would hold the water volume fairly well I am deeply concerned about the fertilizers and pesticides that the neighbours may use. I have already had a toxic pond experience and that was more than enough for me.
I think the liner would provide more safety from leaching of chemicals into the water feature. Perhaps a combination of the many fine suggestions I have gotten for this new pond design ... A lined pond composed of perhaps three distinct pools at varying altitudes. One of them being a raised pond and the others at lower levels and connected by small streams and a circulating water pump to keep the water flowing?
A bog area planted with marginals and bog plants like iris and umbrella grass as an added feature.
Oh but we have all winter to plan and design and redesign. We got three inches of snow this morning and tomorrow it is supposed to be in the mid 60°F tomorrow.
Hope your weekend is going well my friend. Thanks for your ideas. As always they are very much appreciated!
So, do we continue with our conversation or go back to the old thread or start something new? The choice is yours.
Talk to you soon. Kindest regards always!
Lydia -
Message 15
Posted by indeedee (U2385815) on Sunday, 27th November 2005
Hi, Lydia ! - this thread seems to be keeping us going at present !
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving - almost as long a holiday as our Christmas-cum-New Year ! The trouble is, all good things must come to an end, with the prospect of the return to work tomorrow !
Clay is often used as a medium for lining ponds - the surface is 'puddled' by spreading the clay and compacting it, to make an impermeable layer - water can neither get out or in through it. If you think about it, anything which prevents the water from leaking, should equallly prevent any pollution from leaching in. However, if you feel safer with a synthetic liner..... !
I think my greatest concern would be to ensure that the water table at its highest still remains below the lowest level of the liner - I have read of situations in which a liner has been disturbed by the ground water, and it eventually destroys the pond. However, I don't know how you can be sure that standing water you find by excavating is the water table and not surface water which can only drain slowly because of the effects of the clay soil. Best to try and check before committing !
The West side of the UK had some heavy snow on Friday which caused major disruption in places. We missed it here in the East, fortunately, but still had the Arctic wind which has only decreased today (for which I am very thankful !). The frosts last week have definitely hastened the completion of our Fall, although many leaves still remain in place - the Sorbus in the back garden is still a brilliant red, with no obvious sign of any leaf drop ! Now that no flowers remain in the garden, I was annoyed to once again see the Abutilons still going strong by the river on my walk this morning !
Talk to you soon. Enjoy your day, LOL, Ian x. -
Message 16
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Sunday, 27th November 2005
Hi Ian.
Yes thank you we had a grand Thanksgiving with all the chaos that comes with a house full of people.
I did not know that the ground water would damage the liner ! The wildlife pond is in the naturally boggy area of our garden and so far the liner is holding up well. Seems like this new pond project may be more trouble than I first thought. Perhaps a glass bowl with a goldfish is the answer. LOL!
It is raining today and all our snow melted. We had about three inches over Thanksgiving. Some of it melted by Friday morning making for a very icy drive to work. If it stops raining we hope to start putting up some Christmas decorations outside. If not there is always the laundry and other things to keep me busy.
Speaking of which I better start on some of those duties. Hope your weekend is pleasant and your work week as good as it can be!
kindest regard.
Lydia -
Message 17
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Sunday, 27th November 2005
Hi again Ian.
I figured out how to link to my on line photo album. There is a seperate post showing some of my garden and planty things.
I'd love to see your plants and garden as well.
(Hint. Hint.)
Lydia -
Message 18
Posted by indeedee (U2385815) on Monday, 28th November 2005
Hi, seem to be jumping from one thread to another at present !
Took a peek at you pics - another hidden talent, and I haven't yet had a chance to study them in detail yet !
What is photobucket ? is it free, and is it easy to use ?
We had some flurries of snow at work today, but nothing that lasted. It is my eldest's birthday, 32 - it snowed on the day he was born, and then every year on his birthday until his late teens - almost predictable until then, and now deja vu today - maybe a message there....
Talk to you soon. Hope the return to work was not too stressful after the holidays. LOL, Ian x. -
Message 19
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Monday, 28th November 2005
Hi Ian.
Photobucket is free and very easy to use. I think if I can get the hang of it you should have no problems at all.
They are at
Happy B. Day to your eldest. Interesting that it snows on his day! I had Thanksgiving off from work and the following day I was back to work but the drive was very cold and the roads covered with ice.
I also had to work the following day. Both days I worked without the other doctor. He went to visit his sister. The drive was less stressful than the actual work. Too many emergencies in one day.
The dog continues to do well with his cancer treatments. He is now 111 pounds in weight. He is still very excited to go for a ride every Monday. Must be nice to have dog brain. LOL!
Talk to you soon my friend.
Lydia -
Message 20
Posted by indeedee (U2385815) on Tuesday, 29th November 2005
Hi, Lydia - thanks for the info on photobucket - I took a look, it all seems very simple, but that's famous last words for me where computers are concerned - I need to set time aside to go through it slowly and without interruptions, possibly at the weekend !
I suppose the day after Thanksgiving was a holiday for most apart from the devoted few like you, so the drive to work would have been quite a daunting experience with the ice and little other traffic ? - when do you get to take some time off while your partner copes with the workload - you're not letting him take advantage of your good nature, are you ? !!
Still cold here, -1deg C when I left for work this morning, and the same tonight when I returned home. After rain overnight, the car doors were frozen solid this morning and I had to fetch a bucket of warm water to free them - so I could get in and start the engine and the de-icing procedure - such joys at 6.45.am. !!
Pleased the GS continues to do well - it must be very reassuring for you.
Heard from my brother tonight - he has just completed lining his greenhouse with bubble wrap (long-overdue !), then discovered some Vine Weevil grubs in one of many hundreds of pots, so will now have to set about treating them all - no peace for the wicked ! (there but for the grace of God etc !).
Talk to you soon. Take care, LOL, Ian x. -
Message 21
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Wednesday, 30th November 2005
Hi Ian.
Just 2 nights ago we had temperatures up to 69° F and now we are back to reality at 28° F and SNOW! None is staying on the ground yet close to the lake but only a mile or less inland there is a lite dusting of the white stuff on the ground.
Ooooooo! I hate it when the car doors or the locks are frozen shut! Scraping ice off the windows is not one of my favourite things in life either. But, I suppose we all deal with it otherwise we'd be lounging in the Caribbean and soaking up the sunshine.
Is your brother's greenhouse large? That sounds like quite the monumental task to line it with bubblewrap. We decorated a bit for Christmas outside but still have not had time to put any sort of lighting outside. We still have three weeks to do it though.
Yes, you are right. There was little traffic the day after Thanksgiving. I suspect everyone was at the stores for their big sales early in the morning. But we were very busy that day and the next. There were some very sick animals to care for too.
The week just before Christmas I have off. The week before that one, my partner has off. (again!) I only work part time normally because I am taking care of my Mother. In reality my partner works far more than I do and is alone more often than I. I'd like to complain but I really cannot and should not. He has been very kind and understanding given my circumstances with my Mother's health concerns! If he wasnt to take time off then I hope he has a grand time and gets a well deserved rest.
I need to tell you a funny story. Well, it is funny because I did not do this at your home! I was vacuuming some of the house yesterday and thought to do a quick clean up in the aviary. I pulled the vacuum hose in and started the pick up the fallen seeds and feathers from the floor.
The parrots and others were merrily chattering away and then one of them said, "OH! OH!"
I turned around to see that the exhaust from the vacuum had been spewing the debris I was picking up into the other room. There was a cloud of feather dander, seeds and downy feathers on the carpeting and throughout the air! The filter within the vacuum slipped down resulting in this mini disaster.
I must have sneezed 30 times or more! LOL! What a mess!!! I turned on an air purifier and when the air had cleared enough that I could breathe, once again I needed to vacuum and then dust plus clean off all the plants. They had a very fine talc-like dusting over their leaves. I am almost finished cleaning off the leaves. Most of the plants were just taken into the shower or rinsed off in the sink. It's just that there are so many plants.
I hope to finish the clean up tomorrow. Funny thing is I used to like to vacuum.
Kindest regards. Stay dust free.
Lydia -
Message 22
Posted by indeedee (U2385815) on Thursday, 1st December 2005
Hello again, Lydia - I almost missed your message because, in my haste, I didn't see there was a second page now !
I can only say, it's good that you can see the funny side of the vacuum cleaner incident - you must have been numb with shock when you first realised what had happened ! Fortunately, no real harm done, just a very dented ego and probably some concern as to how you can avoid the same thing happening again and return to the status quo in which you enjoy vacuuming ! Did you say it was one of the birds that said 'oh, oh' ? - very perceptive of them !
The weather here has warmed up again - no frost this morning, and the daytime temp peaked at about 9deg C ; but it's also turned very windy and it was starting to rain a while ago when I went to get some bananas (walked by the old and new rectories, hoped I might see or hear an owl, but nothing - can't win 'em all !)
Had today off work for some seasonal shopping this morning (and also paid another attorney's bill), then did some painting this afternoon - a ceiling I had patched-up, but decided I couldn't get away without repainting it ! Think I probably picked the worst day of the year to do it, so overcast and dark, very difficult for painting white upon white !
Was intending to try photobucket, but having some problems with the pc which I must solve first, so it may have to wait until the weekend !
My brother's greenhouse is 12' x 8' I think, larger than the average UK garden greenhouse and as you say, quite a task to bubble-wrap although he and his wife usually tackle it together. It came with them when they relocated about 7-years ago - since then, I think they find looking after it and all the plants an increasing chore rather than the pleasure it used to be. He is very like me (and you ?), however - has to have every plant he sees, so is always taking cuttings or sowing seeds, then complaining that there are just too many pots to care for !!
Talk to you soon. LOL, Ian x. -
Message 23
Posted by Juliet (U2196646) on Thursday, 1st December 2005
I almost missed your message because, in my haste, I didn't see there was a second page now !
Ìý
If I can butt into this conversation a moment - Ian, if you click on the time given under Latest Message beside the thread you want to read, rather than on the thread title, it takes you to the most recent message - handy when the thread goes to several pages! -
Message 24
Posted by Chickadeedeedeee (U2397555) on Thursday, 1st December 2005
~~~~Thanks Juliet for the tip to get to the end of the thread.~~~~
Hiya Ian.
No dented ego with the vacuum incident. I don't have much of an ego in the first place so this is just par for the course for me. yes, one of the birds said OH. OH. LOL!! He was soooooooo right about that. A bit of an understatement but still very correct. I did not empty the canister before starting in the aviary and I suppose it got over filled, or nearly so and caused the filter to slip.
Personally I don't think I should be trusted with the thing again. The poor cat. One of our cats has asthma and this prompted an asthmatic attack for him and I needed to give him his inhaler twice to stop his coughing spell.
We have snow galore since early this afternoon. The weather forecaster says we could expect 6 to 12 inches by morning. Promises! Promises!
I do need to save every plant and make more cuttings than I could ever use in my life time. I am always amazed that the cuttings root so I need to complain about that too. LOL!!! You know me too well.
Like your frog picture in the garden.
Talk to you later.
Lydia
About this Board
Welcome to the new Gardening Board. If this is your first time, then make sure you check out the
or Ìýto take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
Weekdays 09:00-00:00
Weekends 10:00-00:00
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Â鶹Éç iD
Â鶹Éç navigation
Â鶹Éç links
Â鶹Éç © 2014 The Â鶹Éç is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.