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John Innes 1,2,3 Vs Other composts

• Message 1. 

  Posted by Lottie (U2331125) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

  Novice that I am - I was wondering what you all recommend for seed trays and potting on etc. I have just bought for the first time some John Innes Seed Compost for when I am ready to start my seed trays of assorted veggies and flowers. Do you all use this or go for the BOGOF offers of own brands in garden/DIY centres?( as I have done in previous years) Or has anyone made their own?

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Goldilocks (U2296284) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

  I have always used only own brand multi purpose,or ericacious equivalent, until recently! I then did a presentation (as part of a teaching course) on composts where I recommended John Innes, and then felt hypocritical for not using it myself. so i bought some, and will always use it from now on for anything critical like seed and growing on, or potting up or planting out long term plants like shrubs. i will still use multipurpose for hanging baskets etc where I can add in perlite / solubel fertiliser through the summer, but that's all.
  Just opening a bag of John Innes I could see and feel the difference. It has a good percentage of quality loam (fertile soil) which is better draining, and when used to plant a shrub in the ground it is far more like the surrounding soil than the pile of light spongy peat based stuff I used to use.
  basically, John Innes is a formula (John Innes was a wealthy keen horticulturalist who left a lot of dosh to a trust (The John Innes Trust) to develop among other things a range of composts, sterile loam mixed with sand, some peat, limestone (except ericacious) and fertilisers. The main ones are Seed, No1, No2 and No3, with No3 being used for mature trees and shrubs, as it ahs the strongest dose of fertiliser. It is around twice the price of ordinary multipurpose, a lot heavier (so the biggest bags are 30 litres), but when you think of the cost of the plants, and your time, i reckon it is a good investment.
  
  For seeds I have made my own mix, vermiculite with a thin layer of seed compost on top, but now I am a convert I will use John Innes in future.
  And beware of John Innes 'Enriched' compost. I have discovered that this is really just cheap peat compost with an undisclosed amount of John Innes Compost in it. for all i know it could be 10% or less of the real stuff. As it comes in 75 litre bags I suspect the dilution rate is high.

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• Message 3

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  Posted by U2331885 (U2331885) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

  I agree with Goldi above. For seeds - I used to use my own mix and still to some extent do (ala Monty D, Alan T). To re-iterate though - John Innes is a formula not a brand. There are other formulas though for seeds and I note that one seed company (from memory Chilterns?) "strongly recommend" the more peaty Levington's seed compost "for most of our seeds". The T&M sowing guide (please "Google" - or I'll post a link if you really want) is invaluable and differenciates between what is best sown in the various seed composts.
  
  Environmentally peat based stuff is frowned upon, though interestingly some officially certified "organic" growers still find they have to use it in seed compost.
  
  Growing on - especially in tubs - the loam based John Innes are IMHO worth it compared to multipurpose compost, which can dry out and is difficult to get rehydrated.

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  Posted by Goldilocks (U2296284) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

  One thing that I am not sure about is where manufacturers of John Innes get their loam from and how environmenally sound it is?

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• Message 5

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  Posted by U2331885 (U2331885) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

  I belatedly noticed you actually ask about John Innes Seed, 1, 2 and 3 - If it helps to relate (sadly to alochol) and put into plain English:
  
  John Innes seed compost - Spring water.
  
  John Innes No1 - A small weak beer.
  
  John Innes No2 - I've never understood/used this one. I guess enough alcopops to get you though the week?
  
  John Innes No3 - A positively French booze cruise! Enough generally perhaps for 2 to 3 months. But if it's hot and your watering dribbles out of the bottom of your tub then it means time for feeding.....
  
  On the veggie front it's slightly different as some (such as carrots/parsnip) don't appreciate loads of nutrients, whilst hungry crops such as beans really really do....
  

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• Message 6

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  Posted by beejay (U2219592) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

  Interestingly Gardening Which has an article about JIC this month. In essence it says it is expensive, heavy & generally does no better than many multi-p composts in its trials. It also contains a fair amount of peat which is not good from the environmental point of view. It suggests the only area where it comes into its own is for plants being grown in the same pot for several seasons. Does that help?

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  Posted by Chris (U2381038) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

  Personally, I tend to use multipurpose / container compost for seeds in the spring and potting-on, and John Innes No 1 plus sand for cuttings in autumn / winter. Multipurpose seems to have better water retention, and a well-drained soil-based compost does a lot to ensure the correct low level of moisture during the winter.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by johndee (U2977341) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

  Glad someone mentioned 'heavy'. Very important if you have several 100 pots on the staging. And an ageing back. Both can suffer?
  
  I agree with goldilocks' thoughts about parity of JIC & 'earth' but, for lightness & cleanness of handling, together with ethics, I went over to Moorland Gold last year. No 'control' so I can't compare, but we got fruit!!

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by Lottie (U2331125) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

  Thank you everyone for the explainations, I have SO much still to learn - you all mentioned that it was expensive - the one I bought was £2.95 for 25litres - did I get a bargain?

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• Message 10

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  Posted by Toadspawn (U2334298) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

  In my area it is possible to buy 3 x 75 L bags of multipurpose compost for £10.
  It works for seed sowing and pricking out. If the plants are to remain in the pot for any length of time I incorporate some garden loam and granular fertiliser.

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• Message 11

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  Posted by Goldilocks (U2296284) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

  I don't use multipurpose for seed sowing or cuttings, just for baskets and pots for petunias etc where I will chuck it away at the end of the season. The reason I don't use it for seeds or cuttings is probably because of the seeds I sow, mainly unusual perennials, shrubs and trees that germinate over a long period. Keeping multipurpose at the right moisture level is difficult - it soaks water up and if you overwater it holds onto it and the seeds can rot (ditto cuttings), and if it dries out it is hard to re-wet it. John Innes seed compost does not have this problem, nor does fine vermiculite / perlite. For seeds I put compost into the pot first, then put a half inch of vermiculite on top, sowing the seed in this top layer. Once the seed sends down its root it taps into the weak fertiliser in the compost and it is away. For quick germinating seeds this is not necessary, but after pricking out you can still get the same problem unless you are careful. But if multipurpose works for you then it has teh added advantage of being cheap, light and easy to find.

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 11.

  Posted by Toadspawn (U2334298) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

  'If it works for you'
  This is an important phrase. There are rules and guidlines some of which must be followed because after years of testing unless followed will guarantee failure and some of which can be broken/altered to achieve success - if it works for you use it if it doesn't then experiment until you get it right.
  
  Maybe because I also try a lot of unusual perennials and get a percentage of failures I should try and amend my method by adding something a bit more substantial to my seed growing medium. Thanks for the info. if... works for you... 

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