Unstoppable ticket?
To continue the discussion about the Scotsman and Sam Power, here is
I see, meanwhile, that Bill Clinton is talking about a Hillary/Barack ticket as an "unstoppable force" -
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Bill and Hillary are just trying to SCARE up votes. The idea is to let Dems know they could still get Barack if they vote for Hillary.
However, she would most definitely not keep her word. She would come up with some reason for not doing so.
THE CLINTON'S ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
ALSO: BARACK IS WINNING AND HE DOES NOT NEED THAT KIND OF CONNECTION.
I think that Bill should just keep quiet or continue his campaigning for his wife. Their attempt at this psychological game is not going to help them! His wife will never be on any ticket with Obama, in whatever configuration. The two are of a very different political breed that defy any political hybridization.
He should instead be admonishing his wife to quit the race and save the Party. THEIR IS SIMPLY OVER, AND IT WOULD BE WISE OF THEM TO RECOGNIZE IT NOW OR RUIN THEIR REPUTAION PERPECTUALLY!
I think the Clinton-Obama ticket idea is perception management, i.e. trying to regain some of the "inevitability" idea of Hillary. As the article itself says, how come Obama is too inexperienced to be Pres but can be VP? Who answers the phone at 3am on day two if Hillary dies on day one?
I think they are trying to take the media's minds off the fact that Obama will definitely win the pledged delegate count, so trying to give superdelegates a reason to come over to Hillary.
By the way, I think that Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton would be unstoppable -- but I don't think Hillary is going the right way about making that happen!
The political cynicism which drops out the mouth of either Clinton is getting unbearable. Maybe they really are being sincere but they've long forgotten how to show it. A little humility goes a long way - which is why Obama comes across as charming. He clearly understands what a privilege it would be to be the President, while the Clintons see it as their undeniable right. He talks in "we's" and "us", she talks in "I's".
This is seen again in the "unstoppable" comment - there is an admittedly fine line between bravado and boasting, the Clintons do not see it.
Wishful thinking on the part of the Clintons methinks. Obama won Wyoming and won the Texas caucuses. He leads in delegates and number of states won. The only unstoppable force is Hillary's ego, and her lust for power. Something with which Bill is quite familiar I imagine.
Bill Clinton cracks me up...
Why would Hillary want to partner with someone who has a 'fairy tale' record regarding the war, would be a worse canditate then McCain and cannot pick a phone up at 3:00am?
Clinton knows that she cannot sum up all the delegates by herself and is now pussy footing around, trying to woo Obama supporters. Old school politics at its best!
So, she said the tape was running, Sam Powers knew it...but just didn't like the more "accidental" controversial comments being taped.
Certainly not off the record then...if you play with fire...gonna get burned!
So Obama wins Wyoming.
But I bet Obama won't win in November.
It is easy for him to win the caucuses because the fanatical hard-line liberals dominate these proceedings. Little over 9,000 state delegates elected compared to the half a million who will be eligible to vote in the actual election. Even on a turn out of 50% the turnout for the Presidential election would be over 10 times that of the caucuses. Obama wins in these red states because they have such a low number of democrats in the first place.
He won't be able to do the same in secret ballot state-wide elections.
I reckon the only thing which could make Obama stoppable is a Clinton running mate.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
Namaste -ed
There is no way that Barack Obama, or any sane politican for that matter would accept the Vice-Presidency alongside Hillary. Everyone knows she already has a Vice-President...Bill Clinton!!!
He's not reaching out to the voters (who are, at this point, almost irrelevant) but is instead trying to appeal to the sensibilities of the party elders. It's a threat masquerading as a settlement offer: "Take the deal, get it done now for the sake of the party, guarantee a general election victory. The alternative is to take your chances in court and potentially wind up with nothing." He's playing to the risk-averse, conservative sensibilities of the superdelegates, bullying them in effect, and it stinks.
By saying "we'll put Obama on the ticket" he wants them to think that he's offering them two candidates for the price of one. It might be a nice idea but it's transparently obvious that should Hillary claim the presidency, Bill will be the real number 2 and whoever the VP might be is going to be shut out, left twiddling their thumbs for 4/8 years.
And surely Hillary isn't going to want to be campaigning with Obama, with crowds far more interested in hearing him speak than her, and wistfully imagining him at the top of the ticket.
She'll get overshadowed and she knows it.
The Clintons may be planning to school Obama in how things really work in office. She is already has vast exprecience in the politics of expedience, opportunism, greed and nepotism. How low can she go?
Re Samantha Powers (or "Sam" as she is to Justin) - she could console herself by claiming the Guinness World Record for most Â鶹Éç interviews in a week. Programme makers must have been falling over themselves in the rush to get her on: Start the Week, Newsnight, Jeremy Vine, Simon Mayo, Hardtalk, The Interview (I may have missed a few - Saturday Kitchen perhaps?) It seems like there was an outbreak of Obamamania at the Â鶹Éç with everybody desperate for a little vicarious sprinkling of the Barack stardust. How amusing, therefore, that Powers had to resign from the campaign before some of the interviews had even aired.
Oh, Bill just wants the big house on Pennsylvania Blvd.
It really does not matter what is best for the country.
This is simply a cynical attempt to poach Obama voters. They've already "frozen" some superdelegates from coming out for him -- now they want to "freeze" voters as well by making them think, "Hmmm.... That would be nice."
Bill and Hillary keep dancing around the issue that has cost them dearly -- her vote for the war. Her support for it, now matter how she cloaks it now, is the reason why Obama voters are increasingly polarized from her and the reason why this gambit will probably fail.
In 2002, Hillary's cynical calculation was that the US would easily win the war, and nobody would care in 2008 how we got into it. In 2008, Hillary's cynical calculations are all about making people forget 2002. It has partially worked, but I doubt it's enough to propel her to the White House.
The Wall street Journal is running a "fantasy" political market. It's free, and the odds are posted cuntinuously.
Obama is the hot favourite to win the Presidency at 46% to 39% for McCain. Shrillary is a distant third at 14% or six to one against.
Obama is 3 to one favourite to win the Democrat nomination. Why should he even think about his VP nominee yet? Aside from Clinton and Obama, one Jim Webb is the favourite at 9% in a big field.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
Namaste -ed
"There is no way that Barack Obama, or any sane politican for that matter would accept the Vice-Presidency alongside Hillary. Everyone knows she already has a Vice-President...Bill Clinton!!!" - William Holmes
That raises constitutional questions - could Bill Clinton stand as VP candidate? If elected, could he serve? If the President died or resigned, could he take over? Anyone know offhand?
On its front page The Telegraph reported that Mr Obama would not accept a vice-presidential position but it has now been removed. However, it can still be found by going to Enter 'Clinton' in the searchbox (upper right) and click on "Barack Obama 'won't be Hillary Clinton's vice-president on dream ticket"
I am continually amazed by the level of Clinton bashing that goes on. It's as if the Republicans have succeeded in convincing Democrats the Clinton's are the Antichrists. Wake up folks! Hillary or Barak would be better than any Republican running. Think back to the years Bill was President; world relations were excellent, the economy was excellent, race relations were excellent, government management was excellent, trillion dollar surplus. Hillary's health care proposal was defeated not because it was bad, but because the Republicans controlled Congress. A Clinton/Obama ticket would be unstoppable. Either one running against McCain would have a tough fight. Want another Republican in the White House? Get smart America!
The reality is that Obama has won the pledged delegates. The remaining state contests will not change this because they will all be close to 50/50, with one candidate or the other winning slight "victories" in each. When every remaining contest is done, Obama will still have about the same lead in pledged delegates that he has now...roughly 100+.
Clinton's only path to the Democratic Party's nomination is to use a scorched earth strategy and hope all the negativity against Obama casts enough doubt in the minds of enough superdeligates to swing things her way.
Unfortunately for Democrats, she seems willing to do exactly that. I sincerely hope Obama wins the remaining contests and cements the nomination. I grow tired of Clinton's negativity.
*
All the hype' needs to get down to the basics.
Obama is not collecting the States that will vote for a Democratic President in November.
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Clinton has sunk to a new low, tyring to pretend to undecided voters that they can get both candidates if they vote for her. Since Obama has the delegate lead, a joint ticket should have him at the head with her as a potential VP.
Of course, this would mean far less influence for Bill Clinton. Is he reaching out to the voters who (after 8 years of Bush) are nostalgic for the days of President Bill.
As a former journalist, I must say that I find the Scotsman's defense of the use of Samantha Powers comment about Hillary to be rather pedantic and facile - in the end, given the consequences and the stakes, it is also immoral. Regardless of the stated ground rules, irrespective of the attention the interviewee gave to the tape recorder, it is simply unethical to take a person's off-the-cuff comments (bracketed with the statement that it was "off the record") and publish this as if it were "news". While it may be that British law will protect the publisher from legal consequences, the act was nevertheless deplorable. I also feel it reflects very poorly on the British press that this was not widely denounced.
For sheer arrogance the Clintons take the cake! I wonder what they would say if Obama offered them the same deal. And Blogger No. 10 surely has the scenario reversed - IF Hillary wins, it would be Bill who would assume the mantle of President, with Hillary an obedient VP while acting as President in name only.
Barack Obama knows if Hillary Clinton were president (again), he (Obama) would not be able to effect any change in government, from business-as-usual, to his vision of a better America. He would be better off turning down any offer from Hillary and staying in the Senate.
Hillary on the other hand, has too big of an Ego to be the number two man (sic) on the ticket, She wants to be the one in charge and everyone knows it, As president Obama would have a huge advantage over Bill (when he was president): he’s not married to Hillary.
That is why there will be neither a Clinton-Obama ticket, nor an Obama-Clinton ticket.
No, my dear Democrats, you can't have them both.
Choose wisely.
The most remarkable fact is that despite all the dislike of Hillary Clinton, she is still just a point behind Obama in the polls and she still has a chance of the nomination. The Powers issue is emblemic of this - the huge irony of her resignation for calling Clinton a monster is that many of Clinton's supporters agree and that's exactly what they admire in her - her strength. And the key reason why the race is so close and she still has a chance is that Obama is not perceived to be strong. In fact he is so sweet he reminds some people uncomfortably of Jimmy Carter, and that's no way to become president.
Billary's tactics are perfectly sensible. It's clearly in their interests to offer Obama the VP slot at this point. After all, 69% of Democrats apparently want a joint ticket and Billary clearly hope that Obama might undermine his claim to be a unifier by turning her down. Similarly it was common sense to run the 3-a.m. ad. Only 17% of Americans polled think Obama is the best qualified of the three candidates to take that call. It's perfectly legitimate for her to ask the super-delegates how that 17% score can possibly square with him becoming president.
It may not be pretty and she certainly has less than a 50% chance, but she does have a chance and Billary's tactics are simply aimed at maximising that chance. I don't see how they can sensibly be criticised for that.
#59 - what are you going on about? I don't recall ever seeing Senator Clinton being credited for any articles in the Scotsman. Is this some sort of conspiracy theory? Grow up man.
And really Mr Webb you would let someone self-edit an interview? That sounds a bit corrupt to me - the media hand-in-hand with a politico. They can look after themselves. She knew the tape was running. If she can't control herself why should she be helped out?
I think here in Scotland, the Scotsman came out worst from the whole 'Monster' incident. The way they reported made them seem to be gloating about the little impact they made upon the campaign at the expense of someones job and helping to tarnish the campaign. It certainly put me off buying the paper again!!!
I am not a journalist. I am an academic researcher, so perhaps the "rules" are different. But, to me, as a researcher doing interviews, to print something after an interviewee said something was "off the record" is completely unethical--although I might think about quoting it anonymously. And perhaps this is the problem. Samantha Powers is an academic and surely thought "off the record" meant "off the record."
On its front page The Telegraph reported that Mr Obama would not accept a vice-presidential position but it has now been removed. However, it can still be found by going to Enter 'Clinton' in the searchbox (upper right) and click on "Barack Obama won't be Hillary Clinton's vice-president on dream ticket"
Nick Gotts, No Bill can neither stand for VP nor can he inherit the presidency. Its in the constitution that a president can only serve 2 terms (established after the 4 elected terms of FDR), and therefore cannot be in line for the role afterwards (so i believe that renders a former president ineligible for Speaker of the House or Secretary of State, but I could be wrong). The only way a president can serve longer than 8 years is to be a VP, have the president die, inherit the presidency and when that term is up, run and be elected for 2 of their own terms.
People are simply worried about the influence Bill will have, not his official position
The Clinton's can't possible utter a word that isn't intended to manipulate others into doing their bidding. She is behind and refuses to drop the arrogance. Let's think about who the candidates are! Barack is someone who chose to work in the worst neighborhoods of America (South Side Chicago) while Clinton chose to work for the company that removed their jobs (Wal-Mart).
"Obama is not collecting the States that will vote for a Democratic President in November."
You mean the states that will vote Democratic anyway, like CA, NY, MA, and NJ? Great Argument! If you can say, with no sarcasm or silliness that Republicans stand a chance of winning in Massachusetts, NY, or Cali, I have a bridge to sell you.
After working hard to alienate Obama and his supporters Bill Clinton is floating this now? Sounds to me like they are putting it up in the hope that Obama will rule it out. Then the Clinton's can try and brand him as the divisive candidate.
Anyway why would anyone want to be Hillary's 'paper' VP when everyone knows Bill will hold that position in practice? The only thing Hillary's VP might, and its a very slender might, gain is a Clinton endorsement in '16, for whatever that may be worth.
The Dream Ticket ploy, it seems to me, is symptomatic of the Clinton campaign. It's as contrived as it is clever; it's as unrealistic as it it insidious.
Time and again, Clinton has pointed out that Obama is not "ready". On the other hand, she has acknowledged that the very quintessence of a VP is to be "ready" at a moment's notice.
So, how can she seriously try to float the idea of Obama being her VP?
Well, it's easy. She does so herself, but only in the vaguest terms, leaving plenty of room to backtrack. Meanwhile, her aides - most notably Howard Wolfson - do the backtracking, explaining that Obama has not proved his "readiness" but that he could do so by the time Clinton chooses a running mate. By that time, Wolfson suggests, Obama could have passed the "test".
Ah, of course.... No, wait! Wait a minute... To get the Dream Ticket, I'd have to vote for the candidate currently in second place, and then allow her to determine a test by which the leading contender may or may not be allowed to join her? And in doing so, I'd actually be supporting that leading candidate?
Is that it? Is that what I'm supposed to believe?
Yes, that's it. It's pretty incredible, but there you have it.
#34 The poster meant the likes of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida - but then the Obama supporters think a few thousand voting in corrupt caucuses is soemhow going to win them those red states - it won't.
As for primary victories - apart from Illinois (his home state) and Wisconsin all the other victories have been in relatively small states or states with a large black democratic vote. In many of those latter states Obama will find that the black vote won't be enough to win those states in November.
I honestly believe that the electoral college math is against Obama - he won't pick up enough big states to add to smaller states that he might win. Yes New York, New Jersey and California should go his way - but it won't be enough.
Geoff (re whether Bill Clinton could be VP) - thanks. I knew about the two-term limit, and that a VP who had become President through the death or resignation of their predecessor, could then have two terms of their own (or the question of Johnson standing in 1968 could not even have arisen). That's what suggested the question - whether this could be done in reverse, as it were. Incidentally, my (not entirely serious) suggestion for Republican candidate earlier this year was George H.W. Bush - he's only had one term, and is the only potential candidate to have proved he was bright enough not to launch illegal and unnecessary invasions of Iraq!
Alas the unstopable ticket may be a republican one of McCain/Rice
McCain is a war hero - for bombing deaths of thousands of innocent civilians in North Vietnam.
Rice is the answer to both Clinton and Obama - She appeals to the young female, black, and makes an excellent sales person by her convincing selling of the eternal war business, to those who yearn for peace.