THE Language
My name is Betsan.
I'm 42.
I'm a Welsh speaker.
I moved back from London to Cardiff so that my children could more easily be brought up speaking both Welsh and English.
Seeing as how the 麻豆社 is in Truth and Reconciliation mood, I thought I should come clean, declare and interest and tell you I'm ... bilingual.
Now whether you are or not, you may like to know that Radio 4 (not known for showing a huge interest in Wales as I'm told through gritted teeth nearly every week) are making a programme about the Welsh language. Good. Fertile territory for a debate and a good one to have on a programme that'll be heard outside Wales. is broadcast tonight.
A bit of the programme was broadcast on Today this morning. It kicked off with something like this:
(Reporter, in whispered tones): "Right, I've pulled into a quiet country lane. Is it safe to talk about the language here?"
Yes, really.
Anonymity wasn't enough. The interviewee, a Welsh-speaking public sector worker who doesn't think the Welsh language should be promoted, would only be interviewed if he was taken far from prying eyes and straining ears to 'a quiet country lane'. That's what I gathered anyway. Why else conduct the interview up a quiet country lane after all.
All very 'jaw jaw lost the war' or job in this case. He spoke very eloquently, as did Kate Williams, "who is a lawyer and speaks Welsh".
Not that she appears on the programme. Maybe she wasn't asked or maybe her mother told her never to accept an invitation to drive up a quiet country lane with a stranger, especially one with a microphone. But she did speak to Today and raised plenty of issues around the language.
Are people afraid - especially in the public sector - to speak out for fear of damaging their careers?
Do people want their children to learn Welsh simply because they think they won't get good jobs otherwise?
Let's see what the programme concludes tonight. Fear doesn't make for a healthy debate after all - so let's have one on Analysis.
P.S. You're welcome to make a virtual quiet country lane of my blog any time.
I'm Betsan Powys, 麻豆社 Wales' political editor. I'll be blogging the inside track on .
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Betsan,
I am a monoglot. I heard the programme this morning and was outraged. What on earth do the 麻豆社 think they are doing? The growth in popularity of Welsh has little if anything to do with getting jobs. It is about a growing sense of national identity, the high quality of Welsh medium education and a people who have finally shaken off the shackles of Welsh being regarded an inferior language spoken by barely educated peasants.
The survival of Welsh adjacent to a country whose language has killed off nearly 4000 ethnic languages across the globe is nothing short of a miracle. The 麻豆社 would be better served investigating how this miracle has been achieved and what can be learned from it to rescue some of the other ancient languages facing extinction around the World.
I feel very strongly that you and your colleagues in 麻豆社 Wales,have a duty to publicly challenge the veracity and balance of that programme. It portrayed the Welsh language in an appalling light that will have given a grossly prejudiced picture to our English neighbours.
They want interviews with an alternative view and I am sure there will be no shortage of volunteers.
The trailer for this programme begs one question: Where the 麻豆社 in London has been for the past 40 years re the language?
"Serious social fissures"?
The only serious fissures I can see is when employers ban their staff from speaking their mother tongue in the workplace.
This is a strange time to be attempting to stir up tensions regarding the language when all but the most blinkered Labourite has given up the ghost.
There are plenty of problems facing the language - most notably with the standard of language teaching outside the Welsh-medium schools - but these can be addressed in a non-sensationalist way.
Why can't people celebrate the culture and language of Wales instead of trying to squash them all the time?
Why can't people celebrate the culture and language of wales instead of trying to squash it all the time?
Paranoia at the 麻豆社, surely not.
Was the interviewer forced to be blindfolded, would have made it far more dramatic.
If this attitude was taken with the native language of any other racial group the Today Programme would be leading the condemnation, but where Welsh is concerned it leads the bigotry.
Betsan, I speak for all of us when I say you can take me down a quiet country lane anytime you want, with or without the microphone.
Don't think your mother would be happy about it though.
I have to agree with Huw Lewis's comments - we've lived with bilingualism in the Welsh public sector since the 1960s. Whilst that may of caused some tensions early on, most people now accept the fact, and are largely positive about the Welsh language, even if they don't use it themselves. It seems to me this is a a case of sour grapes on behalf of one or two civil servants who have been passed over for promotion (perhaps they just weren't good enough for the job?).
The Analysis programme gave a slightly disingenuous impression of public attitudes to the Welsh language in Wales. Few people I know (I live in south Wales) see the language as a necessary part of their national identity (rugby and music tend to be more important), and I've never met anyone who decided to learn Welsh purely to give their career a boost.
Funny how 麻豆社 London has only now started to take an interest in Wales. Maybe the fact that the nationalists are in government has something to do with it?
The point about "Welsh" in South East Wales as "a middle class elite agenda/career move" was raised but unfortunately NOT followed through...
Less of the absurd & breathless "up country lanes for dramatic effect" might have made room for a real "Analysis" of just what is going on in Wales...who's agenda...who's "Wales"? Where's the popular mandate? What about the (too often trashed) Anglo-Welsh traditions of the other 80%? Otherwise, it was all too easy to dismiss. Maybe that was the point?
Glwyn Alf Williams (RIP) was very good on this ...but he was good on most things.
"When WAS Wales" indeed.
and.. the point about "bi-lingual" Newport was laughable... WE are not even "lingual"!
This sort of dated nonsence appears to be based on the jouranlist's prejudices rather than reality of the Wales in 2007. Devolution really has turned the London 麻豆社 into the EBC; particularly Radio 4 I'm afaid to say.
Well done Betsan on rubbishing this divisive programme.
I for one was delighted to hear Radio 4 carry the programme. Betsan's own blog makes clear that 麻豆社 Wales would never consider touching the issue with anything like impartiality - due in part I'd guess to working in an environment where Welsh language is a requirement for most jobs.
You cannot work for Gwynedd County Council if you don't speak Welsh. How is that equal opportunity? How can you deny someone a job on the basis that they know one of the country's two languages? We don't live with equality, the commentators on the Radio 4 programme are exactly right - we live with coercion.
I would just like to smack Kevin Brennan !!!!!
It's interesting that the 麻豆社 made programme in the first place, given that the Welsh language, and issues around its promotion is something that the 麻豆社 rarely covers in a balanced way because of the vested interests within the corporation.
It's generally the case that the language as an issue is one of the few topics where the 麻豆社 (and particularly 麻豆社 Wales) is openly biased, because of its own language policy and the strongly-held views of many of the staff it employs.
The view of the 麻豆社 could generally be described as: those who support the promotion the Welsh language are right, and those who don't are simply wrong. This message comes through time and again in report after report, programme after programme. As a corporate policy this might be fine; as an editorial policy, it's not.
Such things are inevitable when you consider how many people in the organisation have strongly-held views and passions on the subject.
It doesn't really bother me that the 麻豆社 is so biased when it comes to the language; what bothers me is that they go about pretending to be impartial about it, when they know they aren't.
In that context, the Radio 4 programme was a welcome breath of fresh air.
I couldn't believe the 麻豆社 would stoop as low as they did with the Radio 4 programme. It would have been funny to laugh at the reporter's ignorance were it not for the fact that there are still people who will take that programme's representation of events as in any way relating to the reality of contemporary Wales. Were it not for people like Betsan Powys I would refuse to ever pay a license fee again, on the grounds that the 麻豆社 is deliberately inflammatory and divisive, as well as being almost awe inspiringly ignorant of Welsh current affairs.
What concerns me is that anecdotal comments from 2 individuals were accepted as fact. Following through on the argument presented by the alleged Welsh speaker he would be morally obliged to refuse promotion on the bais that they were refusing to recognise his professional skills (As if. No wonder he wanted annonimity. How do we know he was geniune ????).
If we look at the Public Sector (Local Government) I am sure that the proportion of Welsh speakers broadly reflects the communities they serve. This is probably less true within the Health Sector and the Civil Service in Wales. The proportion of Welsh speaking staff in the National Assembly if I recall correctly is lower than the Welsh average. If so the bias is the other way and 麻豆社 London should be investigating !!!!!
I have read some of the messages on the Today message board. It seems that Empire values are alive and well. Many are abhorent.
Richard Harris (#9) is right about not being lingual. He can't even spell "whose" for a start.
The programme was a travesty of decent reporting: all done by innuendo and perception, blind to the strength of the language and the fact that it is spoken in organic communities, and blind also to the vicious prejudice it has to put up with.
There was also come confusion of terms: 'revival; 'promotion' 'community language'. The bloke didn't know or care , provided he managed to show Welsh as some kind of silly hobby or identity-marker.
It also fed resentment, and omittted to mention that of course Welsh is still banned in some businesses (Thomas Cooke story recently, or the restaurant Le Voile in Felinheli where a schoolgirl worker was told by her bosses not to speak Welsh...). None of this was mentioned. Welsh IS the 2nd class language of Wales, however much some might bellyache. 'We live with coercion' indeed! You mean Welsh-speakers do , all the time, having to change language in order to get basic services!
It is also a fact that you do not need Welsh for 'most' public sector jobs. It's only about 10 per cen tof them, if that. Given that 25 per cent of the population are Welsh-speakers, I think it shoudl be 25 % of jobs.
As for Gwynedd council employing Welsh-speakers only. Why not? Kent Council requires that you speak English. The majority of Kent is English-speaking. The majority of Gwynedd is WELSH-Speaking. So if you want to work there, learn the language. Or explain to the Welsh-speakers all around you why you think their language and culture are not worth your attention.
Why not learn Welsh in Welsh-speaking areas? Give me one good reason not to respect your neighbour's cuilture and language and community?
The anti-Welsh rubbish we have forced down our throats is deceitful, mean and bigoted. Check some of the comments onn 麻豆社 messageboards. Some of it is pure racism, and worse than anythign Ive ever heard from so-called Welsh languag extremists.
Basically, the welsh-bashers are against linguistic equality for Welsh. Simple as that. They won't allow anything to chalenec, even in small parts of Wales, their total domination of everyday life. So they then learn to talk like victims, and hey presto! the Beeb makes a programme about them...
(I myself do not speak Welsh by the way. But I am proud of the language).
Ddim yn siarad Cymraeg yn iawn - Slap Kevin Brennan? I think your comment may have jumped pages somehow ..! Confused readers: take a look at 'Clear red ...' and it'll make rather more sense. Mind you Kevin Brennan was kind enough not to take offence at my joke so there'll be no slapping of Cardiff West MPs on this blog.
Richard Harris (#9) is right about not being lingual. He can't even spell "whose" for a start.
I would like to point out that the reason Radio 4 promoted this travesty of reporting was because they had already failed in promoting division through the programme 鈥淗ecklers鈥.
This is a programme which rather than promoting debate is only interested in creating rows within the audience. When the people who were supposed to take part in the programme realised its nature they withdrew.
Naturally some people in London were incensed that we in Wales were to mature to take part in such a travesty of a show and decided to carry on by other means. This of course included the very dubious country road scenario.
The integrity of the 麻豆社 has been called into question and up to now I would have defended the corporation until now but these events make me wonder.
Public Sector Worker thinks s/he's hard done by. But the fact is that most public sector workers don't speak Welsh. Are they discriminated against? My biggest problem with my council is getting beyond "bore da" with the receptionist. If you write a letter in Welsh you have to wait a fortnight extra for a reply and no-one in the planning dept, for example, speaks Welsh. I doubt that anyone there feels the need to wander up country lanes with or without Betsan.
Even in Gwynedd, the bastion of the Welsh language, plenty of public sector workers have been given the opportunity (in council time) to learn Welsh so that they can fully contribute to the council's bilingual culture.
People who choose to make their homes in that area and work in the public sector know what they're letting themselves in for. Anyone who has grown up in Gwynedd would speak Welsh to an acceptable level anyway.
The public sector worker makes a good point about local government jobs. I live in Pembrokeshire, where there are a very small number of Welsh speakers and the local council and other organisations end up having to employ Welsh speakers from other counties just in case someone, one day, at some point in the future, phones and asks to speak Welsh to them. Crazy.
Like rugby, the Welsh language is something we take far too seriously.
If you speak it, great, if you don't, does it really matter?
I wonder if the reason there are 'few' welsh-speakers in Pembrokeshire (last time I looked there was a hell of a lot... according to the census - maybe you just don;'t come across them Alex) is that the place is full of people whove moved there and refused to learn the language.
I find it ironic that the English spend all their time obsessing about people coming to their country,not learning English, nicking their jobs etc, but are completely dead to the irony of the way they treat Wales.
A bit more self-awareness might be in order here...
One third of the population of Wales is from England. Tell me that has not had massive implications for the way we think abotu our language, our culture, even our day to day political aspirations.
All we are asking for is a little respect. That is obviously too much for some.
"Does it matter"
- Yes of course it matters. How would you feel if the EU ran entirely in French and you had to speak French to understand EU directives, be a politician, practice law, pay taxes, go to court or even fill in government forms ?
It never ceases to amaze me that the same people who get upset that they might have to buy beer in litres and drive in km/h in a few years time don't understand language is an even bigger issue.
I'd also take issue with 'Public Sector Worker'. You can deny someone a job because they don't have the skills they need. If you don't have maths skills you don't get to be an accountant either. And anyone can enrol in maths or welsh courses. In fact many employers particularly public ones will fund the latter for their employees.
Hmmm...looking at these posts the reaction to radio posts seems to depend on where you were brought up in Wales: in strongly Welsh-medium areas, discrimination in favour of the language and its speakers (in the pubic sector); elsewhere, a desire to ensure that all opportunties are open to everyone and that language policy develops at a more reasonable pace.
But in this the answer may lie. Why not devolve Welsh-language policy to the individual county councils. Gwynedd and such councils can have a more strongly Welsh-medium based services and stronger policies geared to supporting the language, while other areas can develop their services and Welsh-language policy at a pace geared to the linguistic patterns in that area.
There is some evidence that this is taking place in related areas with Gywnedd in particular looking to assess impact on the language and communities of all new developments in the county independently of any legislative requirements from the Assembly.
I cannot see how a one-size-fits-all Wales-wide language policy can work at present with opinions so divided without causing resentment. With time, and the number of Welsh speakers increasing in the most anglosized area this problem may slowly dissipate.
Let's play the long game........
I was told at a very young age that because I didn't speak Welsh fluently I was not Welsh at all. I was told this by several Welsh speakers - other children and by their parents. The reason I wasn't brought up speaking Welsh by bi-lingual (welsh first language) parents was because of the prejudice they had sufferred for their strong accents and for openly speaking their language.
The Today piece was substandard, and it was ignorant in places, but this may be the reality of the English point of view on an issue entirely unresolved in Wales by the Welsh.
I learnt Welsh at school, I chose to take it onto further education but my continued disappointment at exclusion by Welsh speakers brought up with the language means that I not only stopped trying to speak it, but I won't be going back to Wales.
I'm proud to be Welsh, but I'm ashamed at the way we treat eachother sometimes.
it's about time someone raised this issue. there is far too much fuss made over the welsh language debate, and far too much waste involved in producing documents etc. in welsh when no-one reads them. One language should mean more tolerance, without a tiny number of small minded bigots, usually those who have never worked outside of Wales, having far too much say in the governance of this country.
It's funny that brian davies #27 talks about small minded bigots. A question of the pot calling the scuttle black.
One thing the program failed to mention was that posts are only advertised as "Welsh essential" or "Welsh preferred" when that officer is going to be dealing with the public, so that the service is given in whatever language the member of the public prefers. Having a monoglot English-speaking officer denies that service to anything up to 90% of the population.